Review System 2
System 2 – Music Lovers System
For those who have been following my audio writing for a while, this is the system that I put together for the ‘Music Lovers’ series of articles way back when at 6Moons. It is a truly wonderful system to which I have now added modest video capability for a little film fun. This ‘Music Lovers’ system is my benchmark for a semi-affordable system that really gets the music right, and it is a great choice for those who want to drop out of the audio equipment wars and just have fun listening to music and watching a few good movies from time-to-time. The photo below was taken with a wide angle lens, as I was trying to get the whole system into the photo in what’s a fairly small room, so it makes the perspective a little odd. I’ll try to get a more realistic photo up before too long.
My ‘Music Lovers’ system currently lives in 11′ L x 12′ W x 9′ H spare bedroom room, which is incidentally almost the same size as the room that Alan Shaw uses to voice Harbeth loudspeakers in. It’s a cozy little space for me to hole up in while watching a movie, or while listening to a little music while reading a good book. The construction is sheet rock walls, with a flat ceiling, and a concrete slab floor (carpeted). The room does double duty for reviewing to see how well review equipment can perform with differing equipment, and in a smaller room context, which is becoming a more important consideration for many people in these days of globalization and the rising prices of living spaces.
Loudspeakers
Harbeth Super HL5 loudspeakers, Skylan SHL5 speaker stands.
Electronics
Leben CS600 vacuum tube integrated amplifier.
Sources
OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, 42-inch Philips 1080P LCD television.
Cables
White Lightning Moonshine DIY speaker cables, White Lightning Moonshine DIY interconnects.
Accessories
For cleaning and conditioning digital media: Shine Ola Optical Disc Cleaner, the Acoustic Revive RIO-5II Negative Ion Generator, and the Acoustic Revive RD-3 Disc Demagnetizer.
Acoustic Revive Acoustic Conditioner RWL-3 panels for room treatment behind each loudspeaker (see photo at the top of the page).
Hi Jeff,
I came across you nice review of the Fi 2A3 monos on 6moons.
I am awaiting delivery of the 2A3 stereo version from Don but I am still in the market for a second amplifier. Do you think it is worthwhile for me to get the Yamamoto A08S for example? I know that the Fi amp can also run 45 tubes but they are not optimised for them. The Yamamoto on the other hand is optimised for 45 (but can run a pair of 2A3).
May I ask you opinion on this please? Do you think it is worthwhile to have the Fi running 2A3 and the Yamamoto running 45? Or is the sound of the Fi 2A3 stereo running a pair of 45 is close enough to the Yamamoto?
Thank you.
Regards,
Sebastian
So, from the pictures, it looks like you do not use a DAC, per se, but rely upon the Oppo for that. Is that correct? And is all volume control performed manually, or are you using the Oppo’s built in volume control?
Hi Jonathan,
On System 2 I’m not using a DAC at the moment, just running the Oppo wide open and using the Leben CS600 to control volume, just as you would for a CD player.
I am thinking about adding a DAC as I just added in an Apple TV yesterday, as it has only an optical out and no RCA outs, so we’ll see what happens on that front.
Cheers,
Jeff
[...] The Apple TV absolutely blows away the Roku in video processing, and the streamed content looks convincingly high-rez on my flat panel LCD screen in my Music Lovers Review System # 2. [...]
Hey Jeff
What speaker cable whould you recomend me for my cs-600 and my harbeth 7es-3 ???
All the best
Rasmus
(Denmark)
Hi Rasmus,
The 3 speaker cables that are my favorite are the Auditorium 23, the Acoustic Revive, and the Cardas Golden Cross. For something really good and really inexpensive the DIY Moonshine cables that I wrote about for 6Moons are hard to beat as well: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html
Kind regards,
Jeff
Rasmus, I have the CS600 and a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30s. I’m using the Acoustic Revive Speaker cables and I really don’t think you can go wrong with them. A friend is using the Cardas in his set up and that’s great too.
Thanks Jeff
I think I will try with the DIY, but I live in Europe. So I have to buy another cable, How should I choose one??
Hope you have the time.
All The best
Rasmus
I live in Paris and I have tried auditorium 23 and Acoustic revive ,but the best (from my point of view ) beetween 660 amp and Kensington Tannoy is the livewire from acoustic system made by Frank Tchang
sincerely
Thanks for the tip on the Frank Tchang speaker cables. I have heard a number of people say they were impressed by Frank’s products, but I’ve never had a chance to hear them myself. Hopefully one of these days the opportunity shall arise. Best, Jeff
Hi Jeff
I’m really to find your site when searching for opinions on Tannoy speakers.
I’m currently happy with my setup, but I will be moving to during the summer and I need to look into something more flexible in the speaker category.
Currently I love my Duo Omega speakers combined with my Ayon Crossfire SET amplifier or Red Wine Audio LFPV edition integrated. My source is either Michell Engineering Technodec with Technoarm or my Ayon CD 2.
I actually remember you writing about going from the Duos to Harbeth at some point.
I have personally always kept Avantgarde Duo Mezzo’s as my ultimate goal speakers, but it might be going in the wrong direction as they are starting to look too expensive keeping in mind that the only thing changing from current setup would be the bass below 170Hz.
I have liked the Duos as they really act as s magnification glass indicating even the smallest change in the reproduction chain and I have actually gradually over a period of three years developed the musical experience I get out of them. I think there is not more to develop and I’m really happy listening for hours and hours of beautiful music.
Reading about your findings around Tannoy Westminster was really inspiring.
However Westminster is a too big speaker for me but I’m thinking about trading my Duos for the second best; Tannoy Canterbury using almost the same driver as Westminster or possibly the Yorkminster.
What do you think; to my understanding I can’t go totally wrong here or?
What would I miss from my Duos?
If needed, I will acquire a Leben CS600 to drive the Tannoys.
Peter
From Finland, living in the northern woods from where Tannoy speakers get their rawmaterial for their magnifiient cabinets
Hi Peter,
Greetings! I haven’t heard the Canterbury, but based on the Westminsters and Churchills I’ve heard, I’ll bet it’s a great speaker. The CS600 is a great match with my Westminsters, and I think it would probably work equally well with the Canterbury speakers.
Honestly, I like the way Tannoys do music more than my Duos, and the coherence of the coaxial Tannoys can’t be beat. Honestly, I think you’re reaction would be the same as mine, that even though the Duos are great speakers, you’d fall in love with the Tannoys and never look back.
I don’t think you can go wrong, and all I can say is I’ve never enjoyed my music like I do now.
If you decide to go with the Tannoys be sure to let me know how everything works out.
Thanks for writing!
Jeff
Hi Jeff
Thank you for your reply to my questions.
I have now actually booked my Monday afternoon for an audit with a dealer that has Tannoy Glenair 15 SE just to get a first feeling for the Tannoy sound. If I find out that things are going in the right direction sound wise then I will also start negotiations for replacing my Duos with Tannoy Canterbury SE. (the more I check out those big Tannoys the more I just love the looks of them)
I will be more than happy to let you know what will happen on my possible Tannoy journey.
I feel really eager as I think I’m in for something big here. I actually also had both Leben CS 600 and the Leben CS 300X(S) in my system with the Duos and I agree, there was something really special going on there on the emotional level. I have never since heard for example violins with such special timbre in my system as I heard with the CS 300XS. Still I preferred the CS 600 as it brought more fun and drive and pace in the music. The only reason why I did not acquire a Leben at that time was that I felt Duos and Leben not being the absolute match. The reason was mainly because as with many other tube amplifiers the Duos sub seemed just too sensitive with its >108 dB. Now with Tannoy I think it must be a perfect match based on your experience and my own listening experience with Leben.
Really appreciate your great work for us music lovers.
One can get really lost out there and loose a lot of hard earned money by doing stupid decisions.
Peter
Hi Jeff,
Have you heard Crimson Audio cables? wondering how they would sound with my new Leben 300XS and Harbeth 7ES-3′s…
Thanks for input,
Dave.
Hi Dave,
I haven’t heard them, sorry about that.
Best,
Jeff
Jeff
what do you think about the DeVore speakers vs the Harbeths? I am considering replacing Vandersteens with one of them and possibly going to Leben gear from my solid state Ayre-I dont have a dealer for Harbeth or DeVore so I would really appreciate your imput
John
Hi John,
I don’t have any experience with the DeVore speakers, but they sure do look nice. I’m quite intrigued by their new speaker that they demoed at CES this year. If you decide to go with the DeVore speakers let me know how you like them.
Best,
Jeff
DeVore 9 speakers vs the Harbeth HL5 with Leben. I have run a series ( About 2 dozen) of amps and pre through both speakers. I am an avid self proclaimed audiophile
who has moved from price almost no limit (under 200K) equipment into what I consider more reasonably priced equipment. Its mostly a cause of switching to a smaller room 20x25x9. The DeVore 9′s are a measurably better match for the Leben equipment. I use the A23 speaker cables from Germany and the Leben silver for interconnect. Truly a fantastic match that could best stuff I have owned at any price. Matter of fact, I believe the Leben/DeVore/A23/Silver match may be one of the top three matches I have ever heard at any price in the past 30 years. Real good! My wife and I are listening to the combo right now and as expected – lost in music on a red disc. Damn man!
Hi Jeff
I promised to keep you updated on my possible Tannoy future.
I Actually listened to Glenair 15″ and I didn’t find one good word to say about the sound.
Of course this was in the shop and quite modest equipment driving them.
I want listening to Harbets fortunately and got my belief back that there can be a life after the Avantgarde Duos after all. I loved the music!.
Then the same store where I listened tho the Gleanairs got a pair of Kensington Prestige and connected them exactly the same as the Glenairs and the difference was like night and day.
They had to pull me out of the chair after one and a half hour as there was other customers waiting for their turn.
That was a totally different way of listening to my familiar records.
Music with big M. I was simply enjoying the music and totally forgot to analytical and check the sweet spot etc.
And today I actually ordered my Yorkminster Prestige speakers.
I am promised to get them at home before Eastern and really looking forward to connect them firstly to my Ayon Crossfire 30w SE amp. I will also borrow a Leben 600 after I have run the speakers for some hundred hours. The dealer was suggesting it might even take some 700 hours before they are completely run in.
Did you notice any change during the run in period with the Westminsters?
Best r.
Peter
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the update. That’s really interesting about the difference between the Glenairs versus the Kensingtons, it’s not what I would have expected in the case of the Glenairs. By the way, congratulations on the Yorkminsters! Be sure to send some photos and let me know how you like them after you get them up and running. I’m trying to remember how long it took for the West’s to fully run in … it seems to me it was around a 100 hours. The West’s sounded great out of the box, but they continued to improve for quite a while. I suspect you will find something similar with your York’s.
Kind regards,
Jeff
jeff,
for source are you using oppo as cd player? or any other component
krishan
Hi Krishan,
I’m using system # 2 primarily as a video system at the moment, so am using the Oppo and Apple TV as video sources, but I’m not really using the Oppo as a CD source.
I hope that helps.
Best,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
First up – thanks for all of your comments and pics about various hifi gear, setup, and music. I’m continuously boggled by the amount of information going around about hifi gear and find it hard/impossible to separate the hype from the reality. Also, I’m in Perth, in the middle of nowhere on the west coast of Australia so it’s very hard to audition any equipment. That’s why I was really glad to find your straight talking commentary about gear that you’ve used and are using in your own home. I especially like the recommendation to clone your system!
However, while I’d like to clone your system 1, I don’t have enough space or budget for the Westminsters, and I’d like to add a couple of digital inputs too (I have Oppo player and planning to add PC input for lossless file playback). I’m just about to order a pair of Tannoy Canterbury SEs, so suspect the best system will be somwhere between your System 1 and System 2. I’d be grateful to hear your thoughts about matching components.
Cables/interconnects/phono source – all clear and I will clone as close as possible to your System 1 depending on availability
Amplification – wondering whether to go with the Sophia Electric 91-01 300B with NVO Spa II preamp, or with a Leben integrated amp (CS300x or CS600). Obviously you’ve gone with the 300Bs on your top system – do you think there is a big difference between the two?
DACs – it seems you are running only analog on your system 1, and no DAC on system 2? If you were to add digital inputs to your System 1 (CD/DVD/BD, PC), do you have any thoughts on what you would use to do that?
Thanks
Paul
p.s. thanks also for the tip about Jim Smith’s book – I’ve ordered a copy and it’s on its way to me now
Hi Paul,
I know that Jim Smith loves his Canterbury loudspeakers, and I suspect you’ll be similarly happy. I think you should ask Jim for a recommendation too, he’s a true artist putting together systems, and his current system is very similar to what you want to do.
With speakers that are as high-performance & high-sensitivity as the Canterburys you will definitely be able to hear the difference with good SET amplification.
300B amps are a nice match to the West’s but I think they might be a little underpowered for the Canterburys (they can even get a little short on breath with the big stuff on the West’s a loud volumes).
If you want to go with an integrated amp maybe the Viva integrated 845 would be a nice match, I know Jim’s had really good results with his Viva mono amps.
Also Kara Chaffee’s deHavilland 845/211 amps are really nice, as is her preamp and new phono stage.
I’m only running vinyl on system 1, and actually no digital but my Oppo in system 2. One of these days I should get a really good digital front end up and running again (like Jim Smith is using, for example), but somehow it just never gets very high on the list.
Keep me posted on what you do – I want to hear all about it!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Thanks Jeff – appreciate the comments.
I asked Jim for his comment and he suggested US Quicksilver monos as a possible good match at a reasonable price. I’ll be keeping an eye out for them. I’ll follow up with him in a month or so when everything should be delivered, set up, and playing music, to see if he can give me any ideas for digital input as well.
I managed to find a used Leben SC600 available here in Australia from a reputable private seller yesterday, so I ordered it and should have it in a few days. It’s coming with the stock tubes and with the NOS 6n3ce and Shuguang Black Treasure tubes that the seller had gotten. This can be my interim amp while I keep a look out for SET 845 based amplification, and I’m sure I’ll find a home for it elsewhere when I get the final amp. The VIVA integrated sounds good, and there are a few others that various people have recommended – I’ll be checking regularly to see what’s available. Actually, the dealer in the UK who’s selling the Canterburys recommended some Icon Audio 845 monoblocks they have available used – but I had never heard of the brand before, couldn’t find a lot of feedback on the net, and they are very big (I could fit them – but saving some space is helpful in my listening room). I’d like to check out the Bakoon that Lance mentioned below too – I’ll post a response directly to his comment.
I’ll do a bit of research into Kara Chaffee’s system too. Have just seen that there is a stack of stuff about her and de Havilland on the net. Thanks for the tip there.
Will definitely keep you posted. The hunt is on now for the turntable, and then to find some good quality pressings of my favorite music!
Paul
Hi Paul,
You’ll enjoy the Leben CS-600 integrated amplifier, it’s a wonderful piece of kit, and it sounds like you’ve got some nice tubes coming with it, so that’s cool. It works really well with the Leben RS-30EQ phono equalizer, so you might want to keep that in mind. Spend some time listening to the Canterburys with the Leben gear, and consider duplicating the winning systems (see posts here on my blog) that Jonathan Halpern put together for the North American Hi-Fi shows, it’s pretty hard to go wrong with that approach. The Sablon Audio Panatela interconnects are a nice match too.
If you’re interested in solid-state gear, you might want to keep in mind the LFD products from the UK, as that’s the SS reference that Dr. Paul Mills at Tannoy uses in the development process for their premium loudspeakers (the LFD Audio PA2M mono blocks in particular). The word from the audio underground is that LFD is really something special, which is probably why they are flush with orders even with no advertising.
I’ve really enjoyed the VPI turntables over the last 25 years or so, but I suppose if cost was no object I’d love to have a Shindo Garrard 301 player system, or the Verdier turntable, sitting atop my equipment rack, both of which I find very enticing.
Keep me posted on developments!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Thanks again Jeff
I’ve found a new VPI Classic 1 (30th anniversary model) with JMW 10.5i arm available here down under for the same price as it’s advertised in the States – which is really good considering the usual mark-up. Apparently it’s an audio dealer’s cancelled order.
Just wondering – when I re-read your “State of the system” message from last year, this turntable has been struck out from your system, although it’s still showing in your review system 1.
Have you changed some part of this combo? Upgraded the arm?
I know what you mean about the Garrard 301 or Verdier. I’ve been looking at lots of turntables and these look fantastic and get rave reviews. Not even close to cheap though! There are also lots of great reviews of the TW Acustic Raven One at a bit more down to earth prices, but I couldn’t find a bad word about the VPI Clasics, and the Classic 1 is a very reasonable price
Hi Paul,
You found a VPI Classic 1 – awesome! I’ll have to go back and look at my ‘state of the system’ message, as it sounds like I screwed up. The VPI is still my analog choice for the big system! I’ve been using VPI ‘tables for over 20 years, and I really think they’re one of the best values out there, with the Classic 1 probably being the best value of them all.
If I had the resources I’d replace it a Shindo Garrard 301 or a nicely appointed Verdier, but for the moment those are out of reach.
My friend Joan gave me her husband John’s old vintage Lenco to see if I could get it up and running, but it seems to be in pretty bad shape. If I can get it up and running I’ll put it in system 2, as I’ve been wanting to get it setup with vinyl for a while to emulate the ‘winning systems’ posts.
I haven’t read much about the TW Acoustic Raven One, so I should probably read u on that.
Thanks for writing!
Best,
Jeff
Hi Paul / Jeff
I have the Canterbury SE’s and use a Bakoon 5513 35 watt class a amp from W..A.R audio. Bakoon
have some great sounding amps so , could be worth a try.
Lance
Hi Lance – thanks for the post
I suspect we are at one degree of separation – I had been discussing my plans for a new stereo system with a friend near my workplace a few days ago, and when I saw her yesterday, she showed me some pictures of the Bakoon gear on her phone and told me that some friends of hers were using these amps and that they were very impressed with them. You don’t happen to frequent the top class cafe scene in Jolimont do you? If you’re in Perth and willing to show off your Canterburys with the Bakoon 5513 I’d be extremely grateful. I read a few reviews of the gear on the net last night and everyone seems to give them a glowing review, but the prices I saw might be a bit out of my target range.
Cheers
Paul
Hi Paul
Unless you are coming to New Zealand , you will have to go to W.A.R. Audio for a listen.I have a rega p9 and ios phono amp and apheta cart. so wicked.Lov’en vinyl at the moment to. Be keen to here what you end up with.
cheers lance
wow – great gear Lance! I’ll organise an audition of the Bakoon amps – great to hear from someone who has their amp paired with the Canterburys.
Hi Paul
I would be interested to know which amp you audition and what you think.Keep us updated.
cheers Lance
With a lot of positive press recently regarding the new Harbeth 30.1 and the continued popularity of the Compact 7, how do the HL 5′s compare to their siblings? I will be finally adding a CS600 to my system very soon and it’s down to which Harbeth’s to go with it. Unfortunately, I don’t have the luxury of a dealer that carries both.
Hi Mike,
I don’t have any plans to review the new Harbeths, so I’m afraid I’m not going to be much help on that front. Sorry about that.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hello Mike!
I have heard the SHL5, Monitor 30 and Monitor 30.1 withe CS 600.
The Compact 7 was at my home with the Compact 7 ES 3.
It depends from the room-size!!!
In a middle sized room was the Compact 7 enough. In a larger room you must look at the SHL5.
The Monitor 30 or 30.1 are also very good. But the CS 600 with the Compact 7 were in my room the better match. The Monitor 30 or Monitor 30.1 sounds a little bit more brighter than the other Harbeth models. But in a larger room want all the Harbeth more power than the CS 600 allowed.
Maybe you need Power Amplifier from Leben???
Best regards
Maik
Sorry, a small mistake: ” The compact 7 was at my home withe CS 600 !”
My room is pretty close to the size of Jeff’s System 2 room, with speakers ending up roughly 8-9ft from the listening position and the listening seat against the opposite long wall. I’ve had 7′s in here sounding just fine with solid state electronics but I thought maybe the 5′s would give a little more bottom extension. However, if that’s only going to smear in this size space, perhaps 7′s and the 30EQ are a better investment. Any thoughts?
Hi Mike,
Harbeth’s are remarkably effective at sounding good in smaller rooms, in fact I would say that’s a major part of their BBC oriented design heritage. I had my pair of M40.1 in this room with truly excellent results. Bass was deep, tight, and articulate. No smearing, but rather a detailed, nuanced, yet still natural sounding presentation. With Harbeths it has been my experience that when the room size gets larger that they start to have problems with smearing and bass issues. Beyond a certain size room (like my listening room # 1 where my Westminsters are setup), the Harbeth bass starts to get boomy and they start to sound out of balance across the frequency range to me. But in a room of this size any of the Harbeths I have listened tend to work very well. In moderate sized to smaller rooms the Harbeths are a remarkably enjoyable and effective speaker.
I hope that helps.
Kind regards,
Jeff