I’ve got a couple of articles I’m working on now for Positive Feedback Online, but soon as they’re done I’m going to start writing a long-term report about what it’s been like living with my Tannoy Westminster Royal Special Edition loudspeakers over the past year or so.
It turns out that Jim Smith recently purchased a pair of Tannoy Canterbury SE loudspeakers for his own use (the Canterbury SE uses a 15.00” version of the Tannoy Dual Concentric™ driver with an Alcomax 3 magnet system and the Tannoy PepperPot WaveGuide™ that is similar to the WRSEs, but in a more room-friendly cabinet size optimized for mid-sized to large rooms). Jim’s powering them with the beautiful Viva Aurora 845 SET amps and he says it’s a wonderful combination:
“Anyway, you know the feeling of listening to music with them … they are equal opportunity speakers, more so than any in my experience. Blues, Baroque, full scale orchestral, jazz trios, rock & roll, solo voices, they do it all … I think I’m jazzed a bit!”.
Check out Jim’s beautiful system with the Canterbury SE loudspeakers in the photo below (click on image for larger versions).
As you can imagine, given the fun Jim and I have been having with our Tannoys, we have been trading a few e-mails back and forth talking about our experiences. Here are the conclusions that we have come to: the Tannoy-SET approach provides perhaps the best overall presentation for an audio system that either of us has ever heard. The Tannoys don’t do soundstaging artifacts as well as the best audiophile-style loudspeakers, but they come closer than you would expect. They probably do have the most cohesive top-to-bottom presentation of any speakers we’ve heard (that 15-inch dual concentric driver is a gem). The Tannoys certainly provide the best presence, tone, and musical involvement of any speakers either of us has heard to date.
Here’s another view of Jim’s system from just behind the listening seat (click on image for larger versions):
As a special treat to Tannoy owners, I’m going to be writing the afore mentioned report on living with my Westminster Royal Special Edition loudspeakers, and in that article I’ll be going through all the setup tips I’ve learned over the last year, and I’ll also be sharing with you all the discoveries Jim’s made in Tannoy setup and optimization with his Canterbury SE loudspeakers too. Believe me, with the Tannoys you’ll be rewarded more than with most speakers if you practice careful setup, because Tannoys are capable of delivering more musically than any speaker I am aware of when done right.
I’ll have some very special surprises to share with you, so stay tuned to find out the whole Tannoy story in the not too distant future, and come see why Tannoys have captured the adoration and respect of Jim Smith & Jeff Day, and pretty much everyone else who have heard their systems.
You may never be the same again!
Hi Jeff, I had been considering Yorkminsters in 2010, but in the meantime used Tannoy SRM 15X monitors and got spoiled by the 15in units. I missed the more mellow Monitor Gold tweeters though, so finally purchased my own Canterbury SE’s, at about the same time as Jim Smith. I have his book and the DVD’s, andhe has been a great help
as I work through them. Truly captivating sound indeed! I use a Nottingham Analogue Space 294 TT, Van Alstine Super PAS 3i preamp, and Primaluna Prologue 5 or Bottlehead 300B Paramount monoblocks, Emotiva ERC-2 CD
transport and MF M1DAC with Clarity Cable Organic speaker cables, and it is a synergistic combo.
I appreciate your writings and reviews very much, keep up the great work!
Regards,
Doug
Hi Doug,
Beautiful system! I’ll tell you what, living with Tannoys has been a real eye-opener. I would have never have thought Hi-Fi could be so good as the Tannoys so easily seem to make it.
Be sure to share any discoveries you make in setup and optimization of your Canterbury SEs. If you haven’t already, you ought to send Jim Smith an e-mail, I know he’s having a ball with his Canterbury’s and would love to trade tips with you.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Great to hear that Jim is also using Tannoy!
I have been Tannoy Fan since almost 20 years now and am very happy that renowned reviewers like you and Jim likes Tannoy very much and are using it passionately at home! I am really happy!!
Even J.Gorden Holt was using Tannoy System 10DMT for his multipurpose listening room (for both home theater and stereo).
Dr. Harvey Rosenberg was really passionate for Westminsters.
I think good days are coming back for Tannoy!
I have Westminster Royal, System 215, System 1200, Monitor Gold 15″ (LSU/HF/15/8), Saturn S8, and System 800 at my home and I have been promoting Tannoy from store since 1999!!
Cheers,
Jignesh
Absolute Sound!
India
Hi Jignesh,
Thank you for your kind words my friend – very much appreciated.
My Westminsters are a revelation, I’ve never encountered anything quite like them for communicating the emotive power of the music.
If most speakers are like listening to the simple melody line of a tune, the Westminsters are like listening to the same tune with Bill Evans improvising over every aspect of the rhythm, harmony, and melody – magical!
I truly hope that word does get out more and more about the wonderful musicality of the big Tannoys, they bring something to Hi-Fi that few get to experience in their lifetime.
Thanks for stopping by!
Kind regards,
Jeff
While Jim recommends not putting the equipment rack between the speakers, in his system there are quite a few components there. How much is too much?
Hi Greg,
The images distort the perspective a bit.
The equipment is sitting on amp stands on the floor, well below the driver’s height.
I’ve always said that local amps situated by the speakers are fine, and through some trial and definitely some errors, I have found this set-up works extraordinarily well.
Not too high on WAF, though…
Cool. Thanks, Jim. Is this the same listening room that you had the Duo’s in, that was featured in the 6 Moons article on you? What do you feel the Tannoys give up or gain compared to the Duo’s?
Hi Greg,
Yes, this is exactly the same room. It’s simply the bonus room over my garage. It has lots of unfavorable dimensions & shapes, but I got lucky and found one great place for seating and a great location for the speakers.
RE your question about Avantgardes, the Tannoy Canterburys excel in the areas that I value most over the DUOs that I had (mine were 2004 DUO Omegas).
I don’t know if that would be the case with later models from Avantgarde, as I’ve not worked with any of them.
I resigned as their distributor in the fall of 2005. Wow – that’s over SIX years ago…
The main areas that are meaningful to me are:
A powerful sense of presence
High emotional impact – after a listening session, the next day, do I still feel the music in my soul, the way I do after live concerts
Noticeably increased tone quality
Increased energy and effortlessness
Tuneful and powerful bass, produced with authority & uncompromised dynamics
Graceful and delicate details reproduced to their full effect
All of the notes reproduced faithfully
Greater focus and inner detail
Story telling prowess
A palpable, reach-out-and-touch-them imagery
A vast difference in the presentation between ‘they are here’ and ‘we are there’ recorded perspectives
I just described some of the best attributes of the Canterburys. There are more.
But I cheated a bit to get mine better. I didn’t have the room – or budget – to put in those babies that Jeff has.
I built custom stands to get the driver at ear level. The Westminsters come that way!
I use REL B-1 Subs from 25 Hz down.
So far, every knowledgeable industry person and knowledgeable audiophile that has visited and listened to the system say it’s the best thing they ever heard at any price.
Fortunately for me, it’s a long ways from here to Jeff’s place….
PS – Probably the coolest compliment came from a music loving person who is NOT an audiophile. Heading back downstairs after listening for an hour or so, I heard this almost hushed comment – “I feel as if I’m leaving a musical sanctuary!” This person has heard all of the various systems I’ve had in that room. So I took it as a special tribute to the Tannoys.
Hi Jeff and Jim:
I have your book thanks to Jeff’s suggestion. I got my first Tannot speakers (GRF Windsors) in 1971. 1996 (GRF Memory) which i still have stored away underneath the stairs. Thanks to Jeff”’s article in 2010 which was what I needed to go along with my long time hidden desire, I made the final leap to the Westministers SE. I’m looking forward to the banter, chat and othetr interesting comments about life with the ultimate speaker.
Frank
Hey Frank,
Nice to hear from you man.
Be sure to share you discoveries with us on your West’s – you are in for a treat!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Congratulations to every Tannoy lover! Jim, you are correct but also modest… The Tannoys make so much possible, but I have no doubt that your system is so special because of your knowledge and skill. I am eager to experience your offer to ‘Play The Room’. Jeff, I have been corresponding with Jim and he has been a great help. So far most notably
that it never occurred to me to consider raising my speakers, but it has made a remarkable improvement. I just listened to David Bromberg’s LP ‘Wanted Dead Or Alive’ and it was totally involving and palpable!
Hey Doug,
That’s awesome on the improvement of raising the speakers. Be sure to share any discoveries you make with us!
I’ve been listening to the Bill Evans Riverside recordings this morning on my West’s and it’s been blowing my mind.
These Tannoy speakers are absolutely astonishing in their ability to convey the essence of the music.
Cheers,
Jeff
Hi Jim,
I just enjoyed your new QuarterNotes. I was curious if you were ever able to integrate the super tweeters to your musical satisfaction? Were they the Tannoy brand?
Thanks,
Greg
Hi Greg,
Unfortunately, I’m not at liberty to say what brand either set was.
But let’s just say both were technically capable. One was a near perfect match.
From that set, the sound was glorious, no question about it.
Once I realized I was listening to sound spectaculars rather than music, I finally preferred just the Canterburys, without the special things the super-tweets did.
Sometimes, simpler really IS better.
Hi Jim & Greg:
I was certainly currious about Jim’s findings with the Super tweeters, so I disconnected my Tannoy ST100 tweeters from my Westminiisters. I played a couple of my familar opera overtures and came to the conclusion that in my case (or should I say room) I felt the sound was a little more smoother with the tweeters in the system. Maybe with more extensive listening I will discover other feelings. For now my tweeters are back.
Frank
Hi Jim & Greg:
I was certainly currious about Jim’s findings with the Super tweeters, so I disconnected my Tannoy ST100 tweeters from my Westminiisters. I played a couple of my familar opera overtures and came to the conclusion that in my case (or should I say room) I felt the sound was a little more smoother with the tweeters in the system. For now my tweeters are back.
Frank
Hi Jeff and Jim,
I purchased a pair of Canterburys last July and I am in heaven with both of you. I’ve been in the game a long time including my recent stint with Avantgarde Duo Omegas and this is the most involving audio experience I’ve ever had. I’ve spoken with both of you before and I must say it’s great fun traveling down this highway with the same great speakers. I am very, very interested in the information you bring forward about what works best with these speakers. i do have mine up off the floor about the same as Jim’s (according to the pictures) and that’s helped a lot. I look forward to hearing more from everyone in the Tannoy community.
thanks,
John
Hey John,
The Tannoys are amazing, and I can’t imagine being more enthralled with a speaker than I am with my Tannoys. They are really something special.
Jim’s the expert on the Canterburys, but certainly there’s a couple of tips that work for both: for one, getting the tweeters to ear height like you’ve done, and two, being sure to use an extra run of speaker cable on the speaker grounding post that grounds to the amplifier chassis on the other end (I hate to open this can of worms, but different wires used in that position for the ground leg do sound different, but ANY wire used there improves the sound over using no wire at all).
Going through Jim’s very thoughtful setup methodology helps get the best out of the Tannoys, and in the not too distant future I’ll be writing up a long term report on the Westminsters and summarize what I’ve learned.
If you make any discoveries as you go be sure to let us know!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Just to let you know I did put an extra run of speaker cable on the speaker grounding post and then to the amplifier. I had not done this until Jim mentioned it and I have to say it did make a positive difference. Now you’ve got me thinking I have to play with different cables
I never get tired of listening to these speakers, in fact it’s very hard to get me out of the listening room and i’ve been playing this game for a long time!
Cheers
John
Hey John,
It’s surprising how much difference it makes, isn’t it? Many thanks to Jim for the tip!
In the future when I review speaker cables, I’ll request that the supplier use five connectors per side, with the fifth element grounded to the chassis of my mono amps. I suspect that approach will yield some nice results due to all conductors being the same.
Cheers,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
I just noticed your reference to speaker cables. If you do a review of a range of cables specifically for the Tannoys be sure to include some solid core cables. I have used many expensive stranded cables (Kimber, VdH) to good effect but I recently took a punt on some DNM cables which were a complete revelation and sigificantly better in my system better than Kimbers at 5 times the cost .
They have a top to bottom coherence and detail which is utterly beguiling and breathtaking. The low frequency output is very powerful and best of all they are very cheap and easy on the eye – you no longer have large pythons slithering across the floor! I was so impressed that I have now kitted out my entire system with them. They could have been made for Tannoys.
One word of caution. They are completely unscreened and so care needs to be taken to keep them away from mains cables
Hope this is helpful
Kind regards
David
Hi David,
Lots of cables come through here for audition, and most just go out the door without mention, as my free time is too limited to waste it writing about anything that doesn’t really stand out. For solid core references the Acoustic Revive cables do duty, but lately I’ve switched back to using the Auditorium 23 speaker cables, which provide a nice blend of timbral characteristics, musical traits, and sonic performance. For interconnects my favorites at this time are the latest version of the Sablon Audio Panatela.
My cable choices vary over time depending on the associated equipment in use – or in for review – at the time. Cable synergy varies with the associated equipment, so what works best at one point in time will not necessarily be the best for a differing setup later on.
Best,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I am a proud owner of a pair of Tannoy Canterbury SEs. I have had them since February 18th 2011 and absolutely love them. I also bought the NVO SPA II phono preamp about 3 months ago and enjoying them. I want to make and stand for my Tannoy Canterbury SEs and noticed Jim has a stand for his. I am looking for recommendations on the height Jim has found appropriate for the Canterbury stands.
Kwamde
Hi Kwame,
Congratulations on your Canterbury SEs and NVO SPA II – fine choices both.
I haven’t seen Jim’s stands other than in his photos, so I’ll ask Jim via this comment if he can give you a little more specifics on their dimensions.
Kind regards,
Jeff
It was pretty simple.
I felt the center of the Tannoy driver was simply too low.
For one thing, my seats are taller than most. For another, I am 6′ 1″.
I simply measured how far it was from my ears to the ceiling, then measured it over at the Canterburys, to the center of the driver. The difference was the height I needed to add (to essentially do what the Westminsters do automatically).
In my case, it was about 8.5 “.
So I had two 4×4 s joined together. That gave me 7 inches.
I used Grand Prix Audio adjustable footers, threaded into the Tannoy spike thread inserts. I adjusted their height both to level the speaker as well as set the exact height I wanted.
Underneath the 4x4s (painted flat black), I installed the same size threaded inserts for the 3 Tannoy spikes. These sit in Herbie’s Audio Lab decoupling gliders (I mentioned them in the last Quarter Notes – for book & dvd owners).
This worked fabulously well, but it was ugly.
So I made a fake wall around the stand that’s also flat black to hide the hardware. It does not touch the Tannoy stands.
And there you have it!!!
Jim and Jeff,
Thanks for the response. I talked to Bob Worzalla of Sound Anchor and he has custom designed a stand for me. With spikes it will raise the speakers by 71/2 inches. I am supposed to get them in 3 weeks and I will update you on how it sounds with the spikes.
Very Cool!!!
Originally, I e-mailed them a couple of times, but never got a reply which is why I built my own.
If you can upload or send us a link to a pic or two, that’d be great!!!
Hi Jim,
How do I upload the picture. I can send you the drawing. if you send me an email.
Kwame
Kwami -
I am so sorry!
I totally missed your request. ☹
To e-mail me – jim at getbettersound dot com
Best,
Jim Smith
Hi Jeff:
I think it was a good idea to mention the speaker ground wire.I like to pass on that my van den hul Inspiration speaker cable has a separate ground lead which allows a direct earth connection between the Amp and the Tannoy speaker. Van den hul did it with the new Tannoys in mind.
Frank
Hi Jeff
I think it will be interested if there was a section where all music lovers could share photos of their beloved systems
Anybody having spent years in the hoobie likes to take a picture of his beloved equipment in is house so why not share it here with you..
Jeff,
I would like your counsel on updating my mains from TDL Reference Standards to Tannoy Westminsters vs Vandersteen Model 5′s which are similar in cost in the newest Carbon versions. I’ve owned Vandersteens for years and would llike a comparison recommendation from someone familiar with both. The Vandersteen 5A’s after several auditions did not make me want to give up the TDL’s . However I’m intrigued by the Tannoys and the prospect of this could be an extremely good, under recognized speaker by the modern audio press. And possibly good enough to merit the my last speaker purchase of a lifetime.
I plan to use McIntosh electronics with my main system. Probably not tubes though.
Hi Redell,
I’m not very familiar with the TDL Reference Standards, and I haven’t heard the Vandy’s in a long time, so I’m afraid I can’t say too much that would be helpful. Sorry about that.
I do think you are correct that certain Tannoys are extremely good and under recognized in the audio press. Word is starting to get out better in North America due to the good results that myself, Jim Smith, and others have been achieving. I suspect they are not going to be under recognized for long!
I can tell you that I consider the Westminster Royal Special Editions my last speaker purchase of a lifetime. I really love them.
Kind regards,
Jeff
I was wondering how could I get the tannoy Canterbury’s to play classic rock and 80′s rock loud and clear? Or would I be better off with Tannoy DC10T speakers for this type of music?
I loved the way the old Arden 3 speakers sounded . I was also considering Audio Research amps.
Kind regards ,
John
Hi John, I use my Canterbury SE’s with a PrimaLuna Prologue 5 stereo amp and Clarity Cable
Organic sc’s, (very well-developed and defined frequency spectrum) and enjoy a convincing rock concert as often as I want. Salient details, pp KT88′s, 12ax7′s in pre and good source material.
The Cant’s will deliver.
Best regards,
Doug
Hi Doug
I think I might try the Prima Luna amp 1st cause if works for me then it would save a lot of money too, I was wondering are you using prima Luna Preamp too?
Best Regards
John
Hi John,
My preamp is a Super PAS 3i by Audio by Van Alstine. I use Tung-Sol 12ax7 tubes,
and I have loved it for about 12 years… I have no doubt that the PL units are fine, having heard some at RMAF.
Hi John,
It’s very easy to get my Tannoy Westminsters to play rock loud and clear, and I suspect the Canterbury’s with a similar 15-inch driver would respond the same. The Cant’s 96dB sensitivity makes loud easy, and if you go with a good pair of single ended amplifiers you’ll get shocking clear sound as well. As good as Audio Research are for push-pull amplifiers, you’d be better off with something like what Jim Smith uses on his Canterbury SEs – 845 mono amplifiers – which will be a lot clearer sounding than any push-pull I’ve listened to. My 300B mono amps are much more transparent than any of the push-pull amps I’ve had through here, and the 845s are similar. You might want to e-mail Jim Smith and ask him about some of the different amps he’s tried with his Canterbury SEs as a reference point.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
I have emailed jim also, I think I will probably try the Prima Luna I know it cost a lot less then something like the Carey’s, I am new too tube amplifiers so I feel a bit still reserved about them, but I will try them.
Kind Regards
John
Jeff
Thank you for your insightful comments.
Since the Westminsters are not marketed in the US. Are there any dealers or distributors in the US?
I would like to audition the Westminsters before taking such a large plunge. However your review and comments have been very helpful. Did you purchase yours directly from Tannoy in Scotland? I’ve pretty much decided that McIntosh would be a wise electronic investment for my next dedicated audio system. While I like what I’ve heard in tubed versions I don’t want to live with the unknowns of tube quality and the effects on system’s sound.
Let me know the Tannoy sales contacts please.
thanks, and best regards,
Redell
Hi Redell,
There are a number of Tannoy dealers in the USA, but I’m not sure which of them might have Westminster Royal Special Editions in stock for demonstration.
I would recommend that you contact Darrin Kavanagh. Darrin was my contact in the US for purchasing the Westminsters, and he was very helpful. Darrin could tell you who might have a pair of Westminsters in stock for audition.
Here’s Darrin’s contact information:
Darrin Kavanagh
VP Residential Sales
TC Group Americas
335 Gage Ave #1
Kitchener, ON N2M 5E1
Canada
866 668 9061 Toll Free office
303 459 4648 ph
303 809 1444 cell
303 482 1372 fax
darrink@tcg-americas.com
http://www.tcgroup-americas.com
Kind regards,
Jeff
Jeff
thanks for the information. I will be in contact wtih Darrin.
regards,
Redell
Hi Guys
I too am a huge fan of the Westminster Royal HE and have been using them for 7 years. I have however recently discovered that the internal connectors, binding posts, and support system are really rather poor quality. Upgrading these features results in hugely improved performance of the night and day variety. I have written a paper describing exactly what the issues are and how they can be recified and I will be happy to supply copies to anyone who is interested. These upgrades are very simple and for the most part very cheap. So much so that you might ask why it was not done at the point of production. You might ask, I couldn’t possibly comment. It just seems very silly to spoil what is fundamentally such a very good product by such short sighted cost cutting.
The good news is that with a bit of work they can all be sorted and it completely transforms the performance of the loudspeakers. If you would like further information please contact me. E mail – david@nimrodconsulting.com and I will be pleased to help
Regards
David
Hi David,
That’s interesting about the HE version of the Westminster Royal. When I was doing the background for the article at Positive Feedback Online for the Westminster Royal SE, I remember the Tannoy folks telling me that one of the major changes they made to the SE from the HE version was to upgrade many (if not all) of those components you mentioned. Do you happen to know if any of the items you mentioned weren’t upgraded from the HE to SE version?
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
With all due respect to Tannoy that is hogwash. None of the items I upgraded were dealt with in the later SE version of the Westminster Royal. I discussed this in writing and in person with the MD of Tannoy and was appalled to be told that they made these cynical cost cutting decisions every day on all of their models and he was comfortable that this kind of cynical cost cutting was acceptable. I told him that his customers were likely to take a different view.. If you let me have your e mail address I will send you a copy of my findings and you can form your own view and kif you are in the UK and interested I would be happy to entertain you and demontrate the differences
The work was done very thoroughly with the help of a group of audiophile friends and so I am totally confident in the results.
Regards
David
PS I love thisproduct and I cannot imagine my music room without it but I object to manufacturers pretending they are selling a state of the art product when it clearly is not. They are taking the proverbial Micky.
Hi David,
Sure, I’d love to take a look at what you’ve found out. You can email me at jeffday777@gmail.com.
Thanks for letting me/us know about your upgrades!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Guys,
In response to David King’s posts and revelations. How can I as a prospective buyer of a new pair of Westminsters make sure that I am getting top quality components in my pair? Can/should I specify the use of the replacement parts that you have in your speakers as a part of my speakers original build from the factory? Since the speakers are made to order that should not be much a problem correct?
great information!!
Redell
Hi Redell:
David’s article does not appear to me to be “snake oil.” If I was about to purchase a pair of Westministers I would certainly as the first step get an official word from Tannoy (Perhaps Alex Garner) on David’s paper. Please let us know what you find out. I’m sure there is more to come on this matter from which we should all benefit.
Frank
Hi Frank
The Chief Designer at Tannoy is Dr Paul Mills
Kind regards
David
Hi Jeff
Hi Jeff just a bit of a side note . I have a pair of Tannoy Canterbury se’s great speakers. If looking for a amp to try , but not wanting to go to tubes . Check out the ” Bakoon amps ” , I have a 35 watt class A one and they sound wicked with the tannoy’s . It is good to see some posts from Jim on here as I have his book and dvd set to.
I believe that David King’s results are probably valid. I’ve yet to encounter ANY product that couldn’t – if the owner were so inclined – be modified to perform at an even higher level.
That being said, addressing the acoustic wave launch into the room and how you receive it will trounce any modifications that mainly address how efficiently electrons flow.
Of course, the best outcome would be from addressing both issues.
Now he’s got me thinking about going into my Canterburys, since I’ve addressed the acoustic issues first.
Jim I had emailed David and he sent me his findings. So if you are going to look I would like to know what you find, you having alot more knowledge on this sort of thing than me.
Hi Jim
Give it a try. I am confident that you will be as surprised as I was by the results.
If there is any further help or information I can provide about this do please let me know
Good luck!! (not that yo will need it)
Kind regards
David
Hello Jef,
My name is Siedy Abee, living in the Netherlands. For years I read your beautiful stories about Tannoy. I want to give you a big compliment about the way you write and the nice sense of humor you are using. I am 45 and my whole live I am a fan from Tannoy Speakers. I owned, the 15 DMT and the GRF and recently bought the Westminster Royal SE. This purchase is the fulfilling of a DREAM. For 20 years I am one of the biggest fan in the Netherlands (perhaps Europe) of these GIANTS. In 1997 friends of my made pictures of while I kissed a plastic (perspex) model of the Westminster. All those years I did not had the funds and space to get in out house. In the past I visited the Tannoy factory in Coatbridge. This was a lifetime experience! I hope once I will be able to visit the factory once again and to meet dr. Paul Mills.
To drive the Westminster I am using amps of dr. Herr Friedrich Shafer (from Germany) (ASR). The ASR Emitter 2 exclusive with battery power. The are stunning. Her Shafer is usinng Tannoys to develop his amplifiers. He is also a very nice person with a service that is beyond this Galactica. I visited him often in Herborm, Germany.
Ok. I just wanted to tell how much I appreciate your website and I couldn’t resist telling that I now belong to that selected group of people who walk all day with a big smile on their face because they own one of those beautiful TANNOY Prestige speakers, especially the Westminster.
Nice greetings from the Netherlands
Hi Siedy!
Thank you for your delightful note, it’s always terrific to hear from another Tannoy / Westminster Royal SE enthusiast.
I would love to visit Coatbridge one of these days and visit with the nice folks at Tannoy.
Thank you for telling me about the ASR amplifiers, I’ll have to see if I can get a chance to listen to them one of these days.
It turns out I was just in Haarlem & Amsterdam a few weeks ago, and it was my first time visiting the Netherlands. I found out I love the Netherlands!
Thank you for your kind words and stopping by to say “Hi!” – I truly appreciate it!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hello Jeff,
Next time you are in Holland/the Netherlands please visit me! I live in the northern part, in the provence called Friesland. This is the part of Holland with beautiful lakes and cows (friesian cows). Of course we will listen to the Westminsters and have a lot of talks about them. I can send you some pictures of my eguipment. Do you have an email address for that? Just let me know.
I also have a lot of contact with Werner Baer, one of the nicest chaps in German who has inspired me with his love for the ASR Emitter amps. The Emitter sounds like the best Tube amps but with a low part that is really deep, deep and even deeper. The have also the best stage (3D picture there is) compared with an enormous ORGANIC HUMAN sound. I wish that one day you have them at your home! I am sure you will like them! The next link is to the forum of Werner. The language is German. http://open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=4470. Perhaps you like his forum.
Nice greetings.
Siedy
Hi Siedy,
Thank you for your kind offer, I’d be delighted to visit the next time I’m in Holland.
I’d love to see some photos of your Hi-Fi system, I’ll send you an e-mail offline.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Siedy, Hi Jeff,
I am Jignesh from India.
Yes, Siedy is right, you must try ASR Audio Emitter II Exclusive!
Friedrich Schafer is a very nice gentleman and his amps are magical with Westminsters!
I am also using ASR Emitter II Ex with Westminsters!
I have heard you are looking for an amplifier for Kingdom Royal review, I think you must try the list given below:
http://www.lmaudio.net/xxcp.aspx?dyiji=12&id=43
http://www.newaudiofrontiers.com/Int_Supreme_300B-SE.html
http://www.newaudiofrontiers.com/Mono_845_SpecialEdition.html
http://www.canaryaudio.com/Ref-Two.html
Cheers!
Jignesh
Hi Jignesh,
Many thanks for the suggestions – appreciated!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff and all,
One week ago I visited Jim Smith to take advantage of my Room Play Reference session! Truly awesome, totally
worthwhile! As one person’s testimonial said, “It is a musical temple”! I found that my system is close, but it will be
worth my while to finish following the recommendations in the book… Move the components to a side wall, move
my tv, sofa and glass coffee table to another room. (The book allows that moving those items out.) might not be
practical for everyone but that is my choice.)
I heartily recommend for anyone, it is a real treat! If one already has Tannoys it will not be a long or painful process!!!
Best Regards,
Doug
Hey Doug,
Thanks for checking in! What a treat to do one of Jim’s Room Play sessions, I’ll bet that was really a wonderful experience. I’ve moved my equipment (except for amps) to the right sidewall and I really do like things setup that way. It does make for a long set of interconnects from preamp to amp though. Just for kicks I may try setting my system (except turntable) up on floor stands between the speakers, so I can hear what it would sound like with a short set of ICs.
Keep us posted on system developments!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Doug,
Thanks for your kind comments.
I might mention that we were using a pair of amps that sell for $1895 new.
All the best in Music & Sound,
Jim Smith
Dear Jeff,
If give a budget of US20K and one 1 chance to own a good amplifier and speaker. What you do choose and what is advantage of 1 system over other..Leben CS-660P with
Bowers & Wilkins 802 Diamond Speaker?
Tannoy Canterbury Speaker?
Harbeth Super HL5 Speaker?
Thank you in advance for the advise.
I am current using vacuum tube EL34 and 6CA7 amplifier.
Hi KY,
Probably the most important aspect of getting a new pair of loudspeakers (and associated amplification) are making sure the performance envelope of the loudspeaker is well matched to the room you are placing them in. What are the dimensions of the room you would be putting your new speakers in?
Kind regards,
Jeff
Dear Jeff,
My plan is putting the my dream system in the living room; it is approximately 15 feet width by 25 feet long.
The reason that we choose the living room is we are spent the most of time there; either relaxing or watching TV programs. My old system is my study; my family seldom using the system; as nobody stay in the study. I only on it while working late night in the study. As both my wife and daughter love music too; thus thinking to invest our dream system which everyone can enjoy. Thus, planning to invest over couple of years to built my system. I had been reading from your website for a long time; but have not audition any system yet. Would like to hear from you on choosing a good system with that maximum budget.
Thank you in advance.
KY
Hi KY,
For your size of room I would choose the Tannoy Canterbury SE hands down over anything else you’ve mentioned. The Canterbury SE is sensitive as well, giving you lots of good amplifier choices. If you want solid-state amplification consider the LFD, it’s the solid-state reference that Tannoy uses to design their loudspeakers. For tubes I really love my Leben CS-600 integrated amplifier, but with the Canterbury SE I know that Jim Smith has had really good results using Viva 845 amplification, so you ought to check into that. Kara Chaffee makes a nice 845 integrated amplifier as part of her deHavilland designs that you might want to talk with her about.
I hope that is of some help.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Dear Jeff,
Thank a lot for your advise.
Regards.
KY
I recently purchased a pair of Westminster Royal SEs. I am wondering if anyone knows of any companies which makes spikes which will fit the threads exactly as already configured? I can’t see underneath my speakers to measure the size. Thanks!
Hi JD,
Congratulations on your new Westminster Royal SEs – wonderful loudspeakers!
I don’t know the answer to your question, but hopefully one of the other Westminster owners out there will have an answer for you.
Kind regards,
Jeff
May I ask why you want to use spikes?
I just saw Jim’s post asking about why you want to use spikes. It’s a good question and could save you some money & disappointment. Let me expand on that a little, as I suspect where Jim might be going with that question is this: In my experience adding spikes nearly always seems to add hardness and an etched quality to the mid-range, not to mention it makes speakers a bugger to move around. With all the speakers I have owned I have tried spiking them, then ultimately I end up removing the spikes because the speakers sound more naturally musical without them.
Anyways, just trying to be helpful.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi JD
I can probably help with your query. Firstly, conventional spikes are not man enough for the job on Westmonster Royals. I found that the cabinets are too heavy and because the spikes only engage with the alloy inserts on the Westminsters they allow movement and will oscillate like a tuning fork if knocked which means that they will do exactly the same when stimulated with heavy duty sound with consequent deliterious effect on sound quality.
After a lot of experimentation I designed some conical feet custom made from stainless steel which I had made specially which vcan be tightened with a spanner. They are 38mm across the shoulders of the cone which means they locate hard against the plywood blocks which hold the alloy inserts rather than just the inserts. They work beautifully providing rock solid support allowing no movement in the cabinet whatsoever. The effect is to give better focus, extended bass response and a huge improvement in midrange and treble focus and clarity. If you want further details have a look at my paper ” Upgrading Tannoy Westminster Royal HE Loudspeakers” on this site which shows a picture of the feet and describes their effect on the sound. If you are interested in acquiring a set I can probably help. Because they are hand made to order they do not come cheap but my view (and that of my friends who helped to evaluate the varous support options I tried) is that represent super value. Please contact me on david@nimrodconsulting.com. if you would like to pursue this and if you are in the UK I woukld happily demo them for you.
Kind regards
David
Thanks for the responses. I have used spikes in the past on speakers with good results. I had read that the pucks supplied with the Westminsters were not optimal in providing stability. I have not yet tried them, as I am trying to determine the best positioning first. ……and YES, they would be IMPOSSIBLE to move on spikes. I would have to have a few friends CAREFULLY lift and place them exactly in position. JD
Hi JD:
You wrote on August 2, 2012 about spikes for your Westministers. May i suggest you read Daviid King’s article on Jeff’s site. It was sumitted by David around May month. The article deals with some modifications including supports.
Frank
Hi Jeff ,and Jim
I am trying to clone your system but I don’t have the $ , the room and the WAF for Westminsters !
I am thinking about the Canterburys
Do you think that the Sophia 300B SET amps will be sufficient for the 96db of the Canterbury, my room is about 15′ x 20′ x 10 ‘ height
Thank you for your advices and for the fantastic blog
Serge
Hi Serge,
The Canterbury is a lovely, lovely speaker (If this is the sound you like). The Sophia has enough power to drive this speaker. I have both. I would look at other amplifier jut to be safe.
For what it is worth, I am bi-amping Wavac (Bass) and Lavardin IT (Tweeter) and that is magical for me. I have also thrown in the Tannoy ST-200 on the top and it is indeed magical. Fulfilling every time I listening to my music. This is a subjective 2c.
Yes! I was also cloning Jeff’s system.
Hi Serge,
I think you will like the Canterburys very much. I’m glad Jim and Tops were able to respond.
I feel like the 99dB Westminsters when driven by my Sophia 300B amplifiers can run out of power at loud levels, but most of the time they are fine. My room is 27’6’’ long by 20’4’’ wide, and with variable ceiling height from 9 to 20 feet.
It would probably be similar with your room and the Canterburys, but I suspect you would have some volume limitations with the 300B. I believe Jim is still using Viva 845 amps with his Canterburys, and that seems like a good place to start with the 96dB sensitivity of the Canterburys.
Enjoy those Canterburys!
Kind regards,
Jeff
I am lucky. My wife just at in front of the Westminsters today in my room (living room has much more modest system) and said “there are so many layers….layers and layers……and so direct, instant, like the real instrument is there.” “Could you play me just one more album, anything you want?”
She came up with the words, never read an audio mag, never heard a conversation about audio, I don’t talk about it at home. No idea what they cost, does not care.
Hello Serge,
I replied to your e-mail.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Thanks for the helpful responses. Question: the ceramic pucks which come with the speakers have an indented side and a flat side with a very small hole. In WHICH side should the spikes already installed in the speakers rest? I am thinking the indented side, but WHY does the flat side have a hole? Thanks.
Hi Jeff, ( and everyone ) This is is my first post on this forum……For some inexplicable reason I’ve just bought a pair Westminster Royal SE’s (without prior listening). Largely this was based on reviews and comments on the internet. I really haven’t found any negative comments and the attributes you describe so beautifully in your detailed review lead me to believe that some of the major things that I love about music are some of the things that you also value and are capable of being delivered by this system. Ultimately for me it boils down to an intimate, emotional contact with the performance and artist (enhanced by delicious wine). The closest I’ve been to this so far was with my Avantgarde Duo’s driven by a Yamamoto a-08s, which, Incidentally I feel was the best piece of Hi-fi equipment I’ve yet bought. Hopefully the Westminster’s will change that. I sold the AG’s and the Yam a number of years ago to help fund a house purchace. Anyway where I’m going with this is to thank you for so eloquently describing these speakers in a way that has rekindled my enthusiasm for horns and Valves. I’m very excited about it, I don’t mind telling you. I’d also like to compliment on your fabulous photography. These images are stunning.
As a first “help please” question :- I have a room size question:- I have a dedicated music room which I can set up as is required. It is only 8.5m x 5.0m, not a bad size, but I’m not sure if the Westminsters will work there. I do have an option of a 12m x 6.5m room but that will take some major domestic re-organisation and some significant bribery. I’d really appreciate your thoughts, as I do this forum and the interesting people who come here. Myron.
Hi Myron,
Congratulations on your new Westminster Royal SE loudspeakers – I think you’re in for a very fun time!
I’d try your new Westminsters in the smaller room first and see how it works. If you’re not completely satisfied you can always move to the bigger room.
Thanks for your kind words!
Be sure to let us know how things are going after you get some listening in!
Kind regards,
Jeff
They are going to be great Myron! Can’t wait until they arrive!
Thanks for your comments Jeff. Very practical as always. With the dedicated room i’ll be able to apply room treatments etc as required so I think I have a good chance of making it work. At least you didn’t respond “eeek it’ll never work” .
.
Neil when they arrive you are welcome to come and have a play. In fact I heartily encourage it. Feel free to bring your new friend Shindo. I’ll pop in and see you when they land.
Hey Myron,
If you get a chance to try the Shindo gear on your West’s let me know how it works.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Will do Jeff, as it stands my initial attempts will be with the AMR AM-77, Which I’m hoping will be a reasonable match, its a hybrid design , supposed to perform like a grunty SET (Aren’t they all ?). If anyone here has tried this combination and has thoughts, I’d love to hear them.
I’ve also got a class a Plinius sa-250. That will be interesting as well with the Wests. I’m hoping to be able to use a more traditional SET amp at some point (when I’ve recovered from the financial shock).
On CD duty is the AMR CD-777, which doesn’t get used much these days as I’m listening to a ttweights gem turntable with a dl103r. Herron Valve Phone stage. I’ll report back when I have some worthy findings. Hopefully Neil will be able to provide the Shindo Magic to try.
Just as a thought Jeff. How do you think the Yamamoto A08s ( 2 watts, 45 based ) would go for low volume listening ?? Do you think that the loss of control would still present an issue. I love the texture and tone that Yamamoto’s implementation of the 45′s gave me with simple acoustic music.
Lovely to chat,
Myron.
Hi Myron,
It sounds like you have some really nice equipment to try with your Westminster Royal SEs, be sure to let us know how they work out.
I’m not sure about the Yamamoto A08 amps with the West’s. They might work fine for low level listening. I tend to listen at a bit louder volumes, so low level listening isn’t something I normally do. For the levels I listen at I found 2A3 amps to be underpowered, so I’ve never tried 45 amps. Let me know how the Yamamoto amps work out.
Most importantly, it sounds like you’ve a very fun time ahead!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff, My speakers are arriving the first week of Jan. The waiting is killing me !!
I’ve been asking questions on Audiogon forums about amp matching and now I’m confused. Having loved the effect that SET have given me in the past and given your findings on the Sophia 300b, that was the direction I was intending to go. However many people are Poo-pooing my thoughts because they think that the Wests require high power to succeed ie Push/pull tube or SS.
Can you soothe my troubled mind please and remind that a 300b amp is sufficient. I rarely listen at very loud levels and I’m more into realistic tone and sound staging rather than bottomless super tight base etc.
Is there something special about the sophia amp that would make it more appropriate than other 300b or do you think that in general anything above 8 watts SET would be capable of driving the wests (other 300b, 845′s etc ). I know I’m asking you to make a sweeping generalisation there but its more the principal i’m interested in and to know that in pursuing amps like the sophia 300b or the Viva Solista (845,22 watts) I am not completely barking mad. As some people seem to think !!!
Thanks Jeff, Merry Christmas to you and all your readers.
Yours with a furrowed brow…….Myron.
Hi Myron,
Either choice will work fine. It’s a myth that you need high powered solid state to get good results with Tannoy Westminster Royal SEs. High powered solid state can sound very good on West’s so some have assumed that’s necessary – it’s not. For example, the ASR amplifier that I have on my West’s now sounds fantastic. But so do 300B amps. I’ve been told that 845 amps are pretty amazing too, but I haven’t tried them myself yet.
All you need for the Westminster Royal SEis an amp of around 9 watts (300B) or more. My 300B monos sound nearly as powerful on the Westminsters as the high-powered ASR solid state amps I using now. That’s the old tube versus solid-state thing. Some owners of solid-state have sold their amps to go to tubes on West’s, while others have done the opposite. The truth is that either works spectacularly well.
I hope that helps.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Thanks for the encouragement Jeff. I can rest easy now knowing that I can get great performance from my preferred amps. Phew !!!
Thanks again,
Myron.
Hi Myron,
The Westminsters are very amplifier friendly. I thought 2A3 amps sounded a little underpowered on them (some of my friends disagreed, but they listen at extraordinarily low levels), but once you get in the range of 300Bs and above there’s plenty of power. The stories going around about West’s needing big solid-state amps are nonsense. I think because West’s sound great with big solid-state amps that people need big solid-state amps, but it’s just not so. They are 100dB sensitivity after all!
Enjoy your new speakers and be sure to let me know how it all works out with your amps. I predict you’re going to love them!
Kind regards,
Jeff
There are a cheap pair of Sophia 300b mono’s on Audiogon right now. They could be just the ticket !!! Not long to go now. I Just heard they’ll be with me 4th Jan…… yayyyyy
.
Hi Myron,
Congratulation on your new Sophia Electric 300B mono amps!
I’m sure you’ll enjoy them just as much as I enjoy mine.
Kind regards,
Jeff
This will make you smile I hope…. I’ve just got my Westminsters last Friday. And now I’m redesigning my room and system around them. This means that I’ve sold and am selling a lot of my current equipment. Therefore I have no source set up right now. So I’m using my Playstation 3 analogue out ( Noooooooooo ) into my AMR77 driving the Westminsters. I probably have 30hrs on them running them in. Even with this setup they are the most wonderful sounding speaker I’ve owned…. (actually I can’t think of a better one I’ve ever heard) despite the ridiculous source. I am listening to them from another room with the door to my listening room open, just a no name classical compilation album, one of the EMI 100 best things. Just now Elgar (Nimrod) played. It was incredible…from not in the same room. The speakers are amazing. Not super showy like the Avantgardes I used to own (and love), they don’t get you focusing on specific frequency ranges, they get you focusing on how beautifully the oboe / french horn / violin / whatever……. is being played. These speakers play music with such freedom and expression that its unreal…. Hmmmm…. actually it sounds very real. I have to keep popping back in the room every few minutes to see if they really do sound that good. And they do. they just leave me with a smile on my face and a slight shake of the head in disbelief that they can sound so good with this setup. I’ve not even begun any sort of tuning yet. Incredible.
Thanks Jeff
.
Hey Myron,
That’s wonderful news on the Westminsters! They sound great straight out of the shipping cartons, and they continue to improve over a couple hundred hours. You’re in for a real treat!
Congratulations on the new babies!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Are either the Canterbury or the Westminster Royal designed to work well when placed close to the front wall or front corners of the listening room?
I ask because my room is 23′ x 14′ and the speakers have to go along the long wall.
Thanks.
Guys,
How do you feel about the Westminster’s for near field listening?
Buck
Hi Buck,
I haven’t tried my Westminsters in a near field listening position. My couch is about 9-10 feet back from the front of the speakers in a straight line, and the West’s sound great at that distance.
Best,
Jeff
Hi Dave,
I just saw your post. I have my Canterburys away from the back and sides primarily for access to the cables in back.
I would have them away from the corners or sides to avoid artificial exaggeration of bass, they do not need it! Experiment if you can…
Buck, a lot of people in Asia have small rooms with Westminsters, and with their output it may seem that listening seems nearfield for a surprising distance.
Best Regards
I use mine somewhat near field, as close as 4 feet, they are amazingly coherent and immediate that close. Very real sounding. And the bass is wonderful.
Guys,
Thanks for the feedback. How far in did you toe the speakers at close instance? Assume they point somewhat behind your listening position?
Talked w/ Jim and will be buying his book and DVDs. Have invited him over, as I am also in Atlanta, to give the WR a listen and pick up tips. Maybe in a few months.
Buck
Hi Buck,
I have my West’s toed in so they cross behind the listening position. I suspect that the ideal amount of toe-in will depend on your room, associated equipment, and tastes. I adjust my toe-in by trial & error until I achieve a smooth and natural balance.
Having Jim stop by should be a great experience!
Kind regards,
Jeff
I toe mine to the point where they cross behind me. I can see half the holes in the waveguide (pepperpot) in each speaker from my closest sitting position. I am free to sit here (most immediate and detailed sound) and back as far as 12 feet and still get really nice imaging.
Experiment, changing the toe a few degrees each time, over a period of weeks. You’ll gravitate to the right point when you find yourself missing the sound of your favorite recordings when you go beyond the sweet spot. You don’t need t do this (and I’ll submit you would not be able to do it anyway) in one listening session.
I am chiming back in regarding the suggestions by David King and Pambos to replace the iron core inductor with air core, and others. This is a copy of an e-mail that I sent to Jim Smith regarding a conversation with Darrin Kavanaugh.
David and Pambos, I am not criticizing or doubting your suggestions. Rather, I am justifying my lack of funds to go down that path.
Hi Jim,
When we spoke via phone we discussed the suggestion of replacing inductors,
capacitors, and connectors in the Canterburys and Westminsters.
After reading the contact info for Darrin Kavanaugh, Exec VP of Sales for Tannoy
NA, I called him to ask if he had heard a comparison between air core and iron
core inductors. I learned that he is a former speaker design engineer for
another company, so I respect that he has technical knowledge beyond a sales
level. He explained that an air core requires much more wire than an iron core,
and each choice involves compromise (of course!). Dr. Paul Mills has a Ph.D in
Engineering and is responsible for the design choices of each speaker.
He is also a committed audiophile and music lover and has made the choices for
the best music reproduction.
Audiophilia Nervosa has plagued me for years, so I was thinking that I could
simply change inductors with identical values, but Darrin said
that could result in a detrimental change. I personally do not have enough money
to experiment with it, even on a temporary reversible basis, but I am satisfied
that the quality I am enjoying is adequate, thanks in part to your suggestions
to maximize my system’s capability!
Knowledge is a privilege to anyone and since internet appeared is much much easier accessible.
A search in Google will show you that there is information at the highest level, regarding the comparison between air core and iron core inductors. You will may need weeks or months to go through all this information.
You will find thousands of pages and millions of experts opinions on which inductor is best for a speaker crossover. Iron core or air core.
If you find a single expert opinion suggesting that iron core when same DCR with air core is better than the air core, please let us all know, putting the link here.
That may tells you something.
Of course to go air core with same DCR as iron core costs much more money. This is the only area iron Core wins. It is cheaper than the air core for the same DCR.
But it is never better sounding if DCR is the same.
I repeat my self saying that all my customers who upgraded their crossovers have had the opportunity to compare the stock Tannoy crossover with the upgraded one. The difference in sound was Huge and that is why they did also the upgrade. I still have the stock Tannoy crossovers which I can connect back only in 2 minutes and I can tell you that every time I do it for a friend the difference is a revelation.
Speakers manufacturers make speakers for living. It has to be enough profit to cover the employees salary and the dividends for the Company share holders. Yet have to keep retail price as low as possible to be competitive. Thing about it.
I wish you could have the opportunity to hear by your self the differences of the 2 crossovers and have your own opinion.
Thanks, Pambos. Please keep in mind that I am not doubting your experience at all. While I am not going to research the total issue, I did go back to Dr. Gizmo, who replaced the induuctors on his Westminsters with silver AlphaCore inductors, as well as silver wiring and conductors… His short book Tannoymania is found on his site Triode Guild at Meta-Gizmo.net.
I wish I could come and hear the difference in your crossovers. The cost is probably going to be prohibitive, but
if my circumstances change I’ll let you know!
I Know very well the findings of Dr.Gizmo.
Alpha Core inductors are air core. Dr. Gizmo ended finally with active crossovers of a particular brand. I have tried the exact active crossover which did not sound good to me. So I followed the path of upgrading the passive crossover which gave amazing results.
I put to Dr. Paul Mills my findings for the active crossover and he agreed with me.
He also suggested not changing the auto-former of high frequencies although he did not disagree on upgrading it to silver windings.
I am not thinking to touch the autoformer only because I can’t find someone to do it in the country I live.
I asked Dr. Mills if Tannoy would think of offering this as an upgrade option and he said not for the moment.
I wouldn’t mind trying a silver wound autoformer one of these days, but I’d want to keep the stock autoformer as a backup just in case the silver didn’t work as hoped. After everything is done with the project I’ll look into getting another set of autoformers to experiment with … by the way, Pambos, did you get a price on what it would cost to get them wound with silver?