I ordered a quad of EH KT90 vacuum tubes from Jim McShane a couple of days ago to try in my Leben CS660P stereo amplifier. I was thinking that I’d tried KT66, KT88, EL34, KT77, 6L6G, 5881, 6n3cE, 350B, and 6550s, so I thought I’d better add KT90s to the list. My favorites so far have been the 350B and the 6n3cE (in the photo below, left).
I was impressed with the tonal signature of the KT90 when my friend Ron brought over his vintage Harmon-Kardon Citation II amplifier that he was using KT90 tubes in. The KT90 tubes had a big, warm sound, that kind of reminded me of an EL34 on steroids. The more I thought about that, I thought it might be a good match for the CS660P. Today the KT90s arrived, I plugged them into the Leben CS660P, and let it warm a bit. I put on the Analogue Productions 45 RPM version of John Coltrane’s Blue Train and gave it a listen. My first impressions were very positive: warm, with a lot of timbral textures, and deeply infused tonal colors. They’re brand new out of the box, so I’ll post an update after I get some hours on the tubes and they get into their full stride. In my brief audition I’m finding I like the voltage switch set to 410 volts (switch down, indicator light green).
Update: Tonight I tried the EH KT 90 tubes in my Leben CS600 integrated amp. I have to say, the KT90 is an extremely likeable vacuum tube, it has a warmth and body to it that will delight a lot of listeners, particularly those that have speakers that tend towards being a little bright. Even with my Harbeth SHL5s I have to say the KT90 is pretty magical. Is it better than the 6n3cEs with the SHL5s? The verdict is still out. But the KT90 is enchanting, and whatever you’re running right now, I suggest you give them a try and see what you think. Be forewarned, if you decide to try them in your CS600, you will need to leave the top cover off, as the height of the KT90s exceeds its limits. Oh how I wish there was an optional Leben top cover that accommodated the more masculine tubes!
Thanks for stopping by, and I’ll report back what the results are when I get a little more time in on them.
Best,
Jeff
Hi,
I am a Leben user from Hong Kong. First I’d like to thank you for the 6n3ce recommendation, they are fantastic!
I was using B&W CM7s before I got the CS600, and I’ve found that they are not quite compatible. I found a pair of small JBL monitors (4305H) on the 2nd hand market here and bought them to try out Leben/JBL combo. I was instantly hooked and now I’m thinking about getting bigger ones with 12″ woofers.
I used to own a pair of 4312D but really did not like the crossover freqs. 4318/4319 is not really a huge improvement (not worth the price jump) so I am looking at 4428/4429 (91db / 6 ohm). However I’m not quite sure if the CS600 is enough to drive the speakers – I am afraid of muddy/weak basses in particular. Not really looking for thumping/booming (or what they call “chest-pounding” in HK), but more like tight/clean bass.
Any comments would be great.
Thank you so much!
Bernard
Hi Bernard,
I’m not familiar with the various JBL studio monitors personally, but it seems like with a 91dB/6ohm sensitivity the Leben CS600 would be able to drive them quite easily.
I did go and look at a JBL web page with the 4429 and it looks like an intriguing loudspeaker. If you decide to go in that direction be sure to let me know how it works out for you.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Jeff,
Any verdict on the KT90s verses the 6n3cEs in your CS600?
Dan
Hey Dan,
Here’s my quick take: If you need to warm things up a bit in your system the KT90s are the way to go with the CS600. If you want to stay neutral or brighten things up in your system you can’t beat the 6n3cEs. On the musicality front I’d say its about a tie between the two.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Jeff,
There’s been a lot of positive feedback on some of the forums about the JJ 6CA7s, have you
tried these in any of your amps?
Decware now provides them as OEM in their Zen TORII MK.3 amp.
Hi Dan,
I haven’t tried the JJ 6CA7s. Thanks for letting everyone know about them though, maybe someone will give them a try and report back.
If you decide to try them be sure to report back and tell us what you think!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Jeff,
I plan to try the JJs when I get my CS 600.
If you’re interested there’s a discussion over on the Decware forum.
Aloha,
Dan
Does anyone have a link to where I can buy the small 6cs7 tubes that are used on the 660p? They seem hard to find.
Found a few on EBAY
Hi Peter,
I’ve always had good results using Radio Electric Supply. Their web site is http://www.vacuumtubes.net/ .
Kind regards,
Jeff
hi you all,
has anybody ever tried to connect its source directly into the pre-in of its Leben cs600? would this confirguraion by-pass any ACTIVE stage of the integrated amplifier (I want to avoid this)
thanks fon your comments and suggestions
Mauro – Italy
Hi Mauro,
If I understand the pre input section correctly, all it does is bypass the volume pot.
I hope that helps.
Best,
Jeff
Hi Jeff, thanks for your reply and sorry for my late comment on it…..
I understand you have never tried your cs600 in this configuration, isn’t it? It has been suggsted to me by my dealer and by some other “audiophile” friend, I’ve not yet tried myself since I want to avoid to bypass any ACTIVE stage. I’ve also asked to Leben and Yoshi toled me ” It is no problem to connect a CD player directly to “Pre-In” terminal to use CS-600 as a power amp.
In this case, only a volume and a Balance controls are effective and all other functions are bypassed.”
My question was to be shure that this configuration actually DOES NOT BYPASS any ACTIVE stage (I guess it doesn’t since the pre section of the cs600 should be passiev, isn’t it?), but even Yoshi didn’t clearify this in his answer.
Thanks again Jeff for your time, for this great space, and for having me fallen in love with Leben
(and for undertanding my not perfect english!)
any comments and suggestion are welcome
have a nice time you all
Mauro – Italy
Hi Mauro,
Yes you are correct: if you run a CD player into the pre-in you still go through the 6CS7 active input stage. The CS600 is really an amplifier with passive controls, so there’s no active pre-amplification stage to bypass. The input stage is necessary to drive the output stage, and there is not an active stage (pre-amplification stage) driving it.
I haven’t tried my CS600 using the pre-in for the source, as I use more than one source and need the switching functions.
After you try your CS600 both ways, I’d be interested in your thoughts on any performance differences you hear.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hello! Anyone tried the 660p with 6550 or KT88? A little tempted to try the “Winged C” version of these.
Hi Peter,
I’ve used Genalex Gold Lion KT88 on my cs00 for a while, great goreous bass but I’ve turned back to 6l6gc to have more coherence on the full frequency spectrum (now I’m using 1979 NOS soviet Reflector 6n3ce and they’re really what i was looking for) and more ralistic image (kt 88 throw the image on your face and I did not like it)
hope this help
ciao
Mauro
Thank´s Mauro! I have the Russian 6n3Ce and I like them a lot too. Just curious about the 6550 SED Winged C..
what setting did you have the switches on your CS600 when you tried the KT 90′s?
Hi Dean,
You can run the plate voltage switch in either position, depending on which you favor from a listening perspective. The cathode resistor switch should be run in the ‘up’ position. Here’s a link to the switch settings tables for the CS600 & CS660P that will provide a little more guidance: http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=141
Essentially, you can run the KT90 tubes as you would the KT88 or 6n3cE tubes, and play around with the plate voltage setting to see which one you like best.
I hope that helps!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Anyone tried KT-120s in their Leben?
Not I. Love those KT90 tubes though, and they seem to just get better as they get more hours on them.
I have been looking for a quad of kt90 tubes, but I can´t seem to find any. Are they very rare???
All the best
Rasmus (Denmark)
Hi Rasmus,
I’m not sure where in Denmark you might find KT90 tubes. In the US I buy mine from Jim McShane http://www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm . I just looked at Jim’s web page and it shows them to be in stock.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Has been a while since my last post, hope you are keeping well. I am enjoying our Leben CS-600 with Harbeth SHL5 immensely these days, and the music collection has just exploded in the last 3 months. Thank you very much for your blog and the recommendation.
Following your advice, I have enquire from Jim for NOS Sylvania 6CS7; as it is out of stock, Jim offered Raytheon Japan as a substitute. Do you know much about it with the CS-600?
In addition, Jim also offer drop in substitution of NOS Sylvania 6CJ3, as I understand this is only the power damper, so it will not affect how the amp sound. Am I correct in my assumption?
Best wishes to you and the families for the holiday season.
Regards,
Arthur
Hi Arthur,
I haven’t tried the Raytheon 6CS7s, but you ought to give them a try and see what you think, then report back. My favorites have been the Sylvania 6CS7, and the Tung Sol 6CS7 are nice too.
I have found that the 6CJ3 does affect the sound, although not nearly as much as a rectifier swap in an SET amp does. I’d give Jim’s recommendation a try.
Be sure to report back your impressions with the different tubes!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Just thought I’d let any Leben CS600 know that I have been experimenting with all sorts of valves (like many others) NOS and new stock.
I recently bought a quad of Shuguang Black Treasure 6CA7 and they are without doubt the best sounding I have heard so far !!!!!
Highly recommended !!
Hi Dean,
Thanks for the heads up. I’ve had a number of people tell me the same thing about the SBT 6CA7. I’ll have to get a pair one of these days and give them a try.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Dean,
What other tubes have you tried?
Hi Dan,
I have tried new and NOS :
5881
KT-66
KT-88
EL – 34
6L6
But these SBT are by far the best sound I have got out of my Leben!
Dean,
Thanks for the info.
There are some folks that think the JJ 6CA7s can hold their against the SBTs.
dan,
haven’t heard the JJ’s but can’t imagine anyone being unhappy with the SBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hello Jeff,
My set is: Leben CS600 + Harbeth SHL5 + Luxman D38u. I have tried different tubes for a few months and the ones I prefer most are KT88 Shuguang Treasure. I have found them better sounding than SBT 6CA7-Z, Gold Lion KT77, 6P3SE, ValveArt 350B, Svetlana “C” 6L6GC (all good tubes in their own right). More air, extended highs, well controlled bass with lots of midrange magic and somehow more clarity/transparence. Particularly the piano which I find somewhat dull and too tempered in Leben CS600 sounds very good with them. I must admit your blog has its share in my decision to buy Leben. Moreover, I have been looking for a used Leben CS300XS (I tried it at home 3 months ago) for some time as I have got some Mullards and Telefunkes waiting for it. You know about Polish custom version of CS300 with 6R-P15 NOS Toshiba tubes. I am going to ask Mr Hyodo if a serious remodelling is needed to use them in CS300XS.
A very fine blog, Jeff. Congratulations.
Regards, JK
I concur, a terrific blog, Jeff!
Thanks Jonathan, appreciated my friend.
Hi Jacek,
I haven’t tried the Shuguang Treasure tubes in my CS600. Thanks for the tip, I’ll have to give them a try one of these days.
I love my Harbeth SHL5 and Leben CS-600 music lovers system, it really is something special.
Thanks for the kind words and stopping by!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hello again,
Finally got my CS300XS as a bedroom/second set (just a plausible excuse for owning another Leben/Harbeth combo). Paired it with Harbeths 7ES3. It plays well with Sovteks but out they went and now Leben is equipped with NOS Mullards CV4004 and Telefunkens EL84. They do sound better in many ways but I have also haphazardly tried different permutations with NOS Mullard EL84s and Siemens (both EL84 and ECC83). Differences seem only minor for me to notice or to remember, perhaps longer exposure would prove more insightful but one cannot really go wrong with those NOS tubes. One thing is obvious though, both sets (L/H) are perfect for jazz, classical quartets and vocals (esp. female). That’s definitely their forte, big orchestral music or hard rock might suffer a little. Allan Shaw promises rediscovery of old CDs and yes they sure sound better but what troubles me more is that some of them sound so good I keep playing them again and again (Yusef Lateef ‘Eastern Sounds’, Paolo Pandolfo ‘A Solo’ – gamba, K.Jarrett ‘Changless’, Helen Merrill & Clifford Brown, M.Petrucciani ‘Big Sur California’, Johnny Hartman with Coltrane, Kronos Qrt Gorecki Quartet No 3, Gaetano Nasillo Concerti Napoletani, just to name some) that my family is getting tired and I start feeling somehow limiting myself! Two magical combos! To say nothing about their headphone outputs. Thanks again for the tip, Jeff. JK
Hey Jacek,
Thanks for checking in and posting your impressions, we all benefit from your observations. The CS300XS is really an amazing integrated amplifier, and I know what you mean … having another Leben + Harbeth combination is near irresistible.
“… I keep playing them again and again …”. You’ve found the secret of life my friend, by discovering something that speaks to your heart, that helps you enjoy the music more than you did before, enough to play the music again and again. That’s really cool. Thanks for the album tips, now I want to hear them too.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
i have been reading and enjoying your blog tremendously because of the candid nature and the honest expressions of what you think of each equipment. (and we share the same interest in photography!!)
i am grateful to say that in no small part, your reviews have helped me make the decision of moving from solid state (electrocompaniet aw180 monoblocks and preamp) to the CS600.
My new CS600 is still in its 50th hour-ish, and it is proudly powering an equally new Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolutions!
Having moved from solid state amps to the CS600, i was left with my kubala emotions XLR interconnects and spkr cables. I’m now having to look for an RCA to replace the XLRs but am getting more and more confused!
i’ve tried the audience AU24e, and am on the highly rated Kondo KSL-VZII. i find the Kondos very revealing, but somewhat lacking in a richness in the midrange.
(perhaps the speakers and amps are not fully run in?/ spkr cable compatibility? ).
The AU24e’s seemed just abit too recessed and didnt seem to portray the detail that i craved for vocals and jazz.
Would you have any suggestions on a suitable cable for my combination? On top of that, the guarneris are prob not as easy to run as the ‘perfect match’ proacs that everyone talks about, but i’d really love to give them a good go (cant afford to change!) with my new clean and simple system.
The other thing that intrigued me was changing the 4ohm tap on the leben (guarneri rated at 4ohm) to 6Ohm led to an improvement in resolution, detail and clarity in the mid range, but at the expense of lower end. Have you had any experience with this and how would you handle this?
Many thanks and keep the articles coming. The responses from your readers have also been very educational and informative. Thanks Guys!
David
Electrocompaniet EMC1up CD. Leben CS-600. Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolutions. Kubala Sosna Emotion Spkr. Kondo KSL-VZII IC. Shunyata Hydra and Black Mamba Pwr cables.
Hi David,
Give your amp and speakers at least 3 myths of running in time before you experiment in cabling.
I had a pair of Guaneri Memento and they took 200+ hrs to burn in (mainly the internal cabling). I have a CS600 and it took a few months to really open up.
I am a jazz lover and swapped the 6L6/5881 valves for Shuguang Black Teeasure 6CA7 valves and the improvement was gigantic.
You have a great system give it time and it will sound magical.
Hi Dean,
thats very reassuring advice! its my first foray into tubes and my local dealer has been pretty helpful too. i’ll take note of the black treasure valves u mentioned after my 6L6 runs in. it should be an exciting journey down this road!
much appreciated!
David
Hi David
Keep us posted how you go. Every month will sound better and better. The Leben is a magical amplifier.
Dean
For sure! love this community on Jeffs place! : ) will be keeping in touch!
thanks again Dean!
I just purchased a quad of KT120 for my CS600 which I am now using as a power amp.
I thought nothing could sound better than my SBT 6CA7.
Wow!
Now I know why everyone is using these in their designs.
Hi Dean,
Surprise that KT120 can fit in to CS600, what is the setting for cathode resistor and platter voltage switch position, is it same as 5881 tube setting?
Just get hold of quad match EH KT90, looking forward to try it out soon.
Hi Jeff, Dean,
Just an update on my system since march. : )
i’ve since rolled the tubes across to Jeff’s recommended 6n3cE from Jim Mcshane, and swapped to full silver connections with the kondo KSL VZII interconnects and spkr cables.
Source is now the tube driven DP777 DAC by AMR, running in at about 200 hours.
Firstly, the 6n3cE. rolling and running in the tubes revealed a much more transparent and ‘clean’ bass than the original stock tubes. Music image and stage seems better separated but also abit more recessed. The sound is not ‘warmer’ or coloured but for the want of a better word, more tube-like, lush and natural.
i’d say overall certainly a much much more enjoyeable experience. This was further enhanced when i changed my old solid state equipment cables (kubala sosna emotions) to the Kondos.
Finally, Having run in the DP777, i’ve also noted a lovely organic synergy with the system. Music is now more involving and i’ve really stopped analysing the sound, and begun to simply enjoy it.
The move to the DAC was more of a transition towards what will eventually be the way i believe music will head towards in the main stream. (havent dared to go near vinyl!!!), rather than any critical issues with my old CD player. My only issue with a DAC is really, having to fiddle with more things like albums and itunes and the interface programs, rather than simply sticking a disc in. The price of the keeping up with technology.
i’m pretty settled (finally!!) with this system combination and will prob not change for another decade or more. (i’d kept my previous system of complete electrocompaniets and SF cremonas for almost 10 years), all thanks to the encouraging articles and advice from Jeff and the guys on this forum. i’m also so glad to have now progressed from solid state to tubes, as they are so much more suited for the type of music i’m listening to now. Thanks!
I took the lid off to fit the KT120. I sent Leben an email and they said that the KT120 will be fine in the CS600 and use switched just like a 5881 setting.
I have to say that these tubes are amazing. I was very sceptical with Russian made “new” tubes. But these are the perfect balance of HiFi/musicality.
Would live to know if anyone else has tried these out yet?
David Tay- very happy to hear that you are enjoying your system. Try out he KT120 tubes it’s as if my speakers are about 30% more dynamic without any brightness or glare!
Cool, KT120 is on my list. Manage to plug in KT90 last night, what an amazing tube, 6n3ce is a tonal balance tube, and very sweet sounding tube especially play female vocalist. Whereas, KT90 has more slam and weight on the lower end freq, but lack the sweetness sounding of 6n3ce. I play a few orchestra musics, 6n3ce is lacking the emotion feeling of KT90, KT90 has the impact,dynamic and characteristic needed for orchestra music.
i would think KT120 has the same impact and dynamic offered by KT90.
KT 120 will give you everything with plenty of headroom!
Hello!
Ok i think i will give the KT90/KT120 one chance. KT90 from EH and the KT120 from TungSol?
Are these the only factorys for this kind of tubes?
But i think the best for me is the RCA 6L6GC from the 1960′s.
This tube give the emotion in the music.
The russian 6P3S-E are very good. But the emotion was not so good like the NOS RCA.
And i want the lid on the CS600. Without the lid it looks not so nice.
Best regards
Maik
Really worth trying the KT120 very musical and involving sound. I put some rubber feet on the comers of the lid to give it extra height so it looks like the lid is still on but just raised an inch.
I really think you will be surprised how good these valves sound in the amp. Yoshi, from Leben, agrees and recommends these valves. That is why there is the CS1000P model now.
I was worried that they would sound dry and HiFi like; but they are like the best if all tubes with a NOS sounding tone.
Omg, kt90 not even burn in, kt120 is on it way, hope it will give everything like what Dean said, sweet sounding of 6n3ce and impact of kt90
Let me know what you think. They take a while to burn in so be patient. When they settle in you will be very happy with the sound.
Man I’m enjoying my new CS-600 (Alternative duties to my Dayens Ampino). I’m running in a new set of 6n3cE which were a bit forward in the treble at first but are settling down nicely now. I’ve ordered some Japanese Raytheon 6CS7 that will be here in a week so will report back on the sound. It’s running a set of no brand Japanese 6CS7′s which sounds better than my set of Sylvania 6CS7′s (just sweeter in general). Does anyone no how long these tubes should last approx?
What should I try next for the power tubes? Black treasures look yummy.
Hi James, what is yr finding of Japanese Raytheon 6CS7 comparing to stock tube?
Don’t take Black Treasure!
Please try RCA 6L6GC from the 1960′s, because these are my favourite Powetube in the CS600.
Where do you get the japanese 6CS7???
I have 5 matched quads of the Sylvania 6CS7. I’ve tried some other brands NOS from US and Europe.
The Sylvania are the best.
The 6P3S-E are very good. Maybe a little bit to harsh. The RCA 6L6GC made the beautiful energetic Sound.
You feel the instrument much more. On the emotional side are the RCA the best !!!
Regards
Maik
Hi Maik, the Japanese 6CS7 in there now are stock as far as I know, but the Japanese Raytheons are coming from Jim McShane, the gentleman mentioned in an earlier post above.
Are the RCA 6L6GC’s still readily available? I’m tempted, reading above, to try some KT90′s and KT120′s. My speakers are DIY Visaton B-200, filtered but still very open and detailed so some tubes that were silky smooth would be a great match. Those RCA’s sound good to me.
Regards,
James.
I’d be interested in hearing you impression of the Raytheon 6CS7 from Jim. I’m close to purchasing a Leben CS600 and I am considering these as well, since it’s difficult to locate a quad of this particular tube anywhere.
So much tube rolling! When I get my hands on the CS600, Maik Wilde has got me wanting to purchase a quad of the RCA 6L6GC just to see what all the fuss is about. But then again there’s the vaunted NOS Mullard EL34 XF2, or perhaps even a quad of the Western Electric 350B if you hit the lotto. I’ve read perhaps the rare Mullard EL35 may even work and they sound better than the 350Bs. Also, I’d like to see what all the Psvane and Shuguang EL34 and KT88 bring to the table. So many option to roll with!
Good luck with the Raytheons and please let us know your impression.
I’ve mailed to Jim. He has no more (only 2! in stock) japanese Raytheon.
Here is my tube setting, that works optimal in my system:
Leben CS 600:
RCA 6L6GC NOS blackplate (built in the early 1960′s)
Sylvania 6CS7 NOS blackplate
Leben RS30-EQ:
Mullard 12AT7WA NOS with square getters (built in 1960)
6X5GT RCA NOS (built in 1943)
Best regards
Maik Wilde
Sorry, you can only try to get the NOS RCA 6L6GC via ebay or other good tube stores.
But the price is the tear in your eye. It is possible to get them in very good condition.
I think you must pay around 300 – 400 Dollar!!!
I’m not a fan of new tubes. NOS tubes have more smooth details and a higher musical level!
Best regards
Hi
After a couple of weeks with KT90, i am putting back 6n3ce on my leben cs600, wooo, like what jeff has said, it hard to beat it, natural and musical cd after cd. Until my KT120 arrive, KT90 will be kick out of my room haaa
KT120 takes a long time to run-in but once it does it is an extremely enjoyable tube in the Leben.
I now understand why manufacturers are all using this valve (including Leben).
It has all the best virtues of all the pentodes and KT valves and doesn’t sound bright, etchy or glassy like most new production tubes tend to.
I think I’ll have to start saving for the new Leben CS-1000p.
Has anyone tried Mullard EL34 XF2s with double o getters, Telefunken EL34, or Phillips/Amperex EL34s with the double d getter with the Leben CS600?
Hello,
I found here about use of Raytheon or Sylvania 6CS7 tubes. I bought a set of Hit Ray 6CS7 tubes. Does anyone here has experinece with Hit Ray 6CS7 tubes? Thank you.
No Drazen, no experience with those. Where did you find them? 6SC7′s seem to be getting a bit hard to get. Mr ‘Leben’ might have to devise a kit of some sort to mod the pre-valve section to another more available valve at this rate or the CS-600 will become a 23kg door stop. Does anyone know how long 6SC7′s last for under normal operating conditions?
Finally, after 2 years of patience and savings my system is (almost) complete! I’ve been inspired ever since reading Jeff’s articles on positive feedback a few years ago to acquire a Leben CS600, and just yesterday I struck a deal that should have one shipped to me within the next few days. There is more literature on the Leben CS600 other than Jeff’s review which also lead to this decision, but none seemed to describe the Leben sound in such a way that after reading made me say “I must have this!”. Well done Jeff, I think it’s no coincidence that when you search “Leben CS600″ in google, your article comes up first before the product page!
I also contemplated building the review system #2 based on the Harbeth SHL-5 speakers, and a very nice opportunity came up to purchase some in rosewood for the bargain price of $2800 but for whatever reason I did not pull the trigger. Since that potential encounter, after reading several other reviews from hifi magazines, posters on JeffsPlace, forums such as Head-Fi, Audioaficionado, and Audiokarma, I thought I could build a DeVore/Leben combo, and that’s exactly what I’ve done. Another opportunity came about to purchase a pair of DeVore Nines for $4k, and I did pull the trigger on that one. Especially after reading the synergy that the DeVores have with the Leben amps (much like Harbeth with Leben).
Also based on Jeff’s review, I purchased a Sony PS1 for about $50 shipped, and the Panatela ICs for $350. Let me tell you, there are deals to be had in the world of used hifi equipment.
This post is meant to thank Jeff for letting us know about these wonderful products, and also to write about what I believe will be a fantastic system all for under $10k using all used/pre-owned/demo equipment. Yes, it took me a while to get to this point mostly because I was waiting for the right deals to come around. I realize there are many people who do not believe in buying used products. Heck, you never know what you’re going to get, as the saying goes. But for those of us on a tight budget and still wanting the best, this seems to be the way to go. Below are all the components in my system and what I paid for them.
DeVore Nines – $4000 retail $7000
Leben CS600 – $4000 retail $6500
Panatela ICs – $350 retail $800
Audio GD Reference One DAC – $900 retail $1700
Monster HTPS 7000 mkii – $200 retail $1300
—
Total $9450. That’s a savings of $7850 over retail just for buying used! From power conditioning to speakers. I’m still missing some speaker cables which will be coming shortly for around $400 which should keep me under the $10k budget.
Definitely the hardest piece to acquire was the Leben CS600, as you don’t see many of these on the used market in the United States, and with good reason too. Their owners don’t want to let them go!
I look forward to doing some tube rolling with the Leben and seeing what all the fuss is about with the RCA 6L6GC blackplates, the Mullard and Telefunken EL34s, the Psave/Shuguang KT88s, etc…
Thanks again Jeff and thanks to all the posters on the site who share their experiences with these fine products. I appreciate all your opinions and details of your experience, please keep them coming! I will post my impression of the Leben CS600 and DeVore Nines combo when the Leben arrives in a few days (can’t wait)! I hope my post can serve as an inspiration for someone building a system on a budget, hopefully they will see that a great system can be achieved without spending top dollar.
Thanks!
Carlos
Hi Carlos,
Congratulations on your new system! You’ve put together a very thoughtful combination of components that should give you a life-time of pleasure. The Leben CS600 is really a pleasure to own, and you’re exactly right, it’s rare that they come up used, so you were very fortunate in finding one – good job!
Thank you for your kind words – appreciated.
Keep us posted on any discoveries with your Leben!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Well I guess my excitement was a bit premature, as the Leben arrived dead on arrival yesterday. UPS had there way with the Leben, and the fuse holder was damaged in addition to some of the plastic bracings on the under side of the amp that holds the some of the capacitors in place. I electrocuted myself trying to fix it. The seller and I are filing a claim with UPS to see if we can get reimbursed for the insured amount. I hate having to go through a long drawn out process and being at the mercy of UPS’ insurance claims department. Horrible situation. I would advise anyone buying used audio equipment to definitely insure their package, as that is the only recourse you may have.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope that it can be restored back to it’s glory as she is a beautiful amplifier. I wish these shipping companies new who was paying their wage and treat our property with more respect.
Hi Carlos,
I’m really sorry to hear about damage to the Leben CS-600 during shipping – that’s a heart breaker.
I really hope you can get everything worked out to a good ending.
Kind regards,
Jeff
Well, good news is I was able to fix the Leben myself. The fuse holder was broken, a new one needed to be soldered on, something that an amateur like myself could handle. As for the suspended capacitors, looks like there was a loose screw. So, not as much damage as originally suspected.
My heart lit up when I saw the power lights and cool blue LED turn on when the Leben came to life. I’ve been listening to the Leben/Devore combo for the last few days and it’s been fantastic! Much smoother than my previous vintage solid state amp, better sound stage, imaging, a more romantic experience.
I’ve also started doing a little tube rolling. The Leben came default with the Sovteks, I first listened to a few songs on those and I thought they sounded great. I did not notice the harshness that others had mentioned with these tubes. Still, they didn’t last long as I had a quad of 6n3ce waiting to be popped in. Initially the sounded great, the sound stage widened and the music got sweeter. CCR’s “Green River” sounded fantastic, I finally understood what is meant by the often juxtaposed adjectives when describing amps, “musical” vs “clinical”. The Leben was definitely musical. But, I felt a lack of volume and intimacy with these tubes the more I listened.
Next I popped in a quad of JJ EL34Ls. Wow! I thought new production tubes were suppose to sound bad? I was thoroughly impressed with the JJs. Definitely a cleaner, tighter sound with more bass and mid range liquidity than the 6c3ce in my opinion. Marvin Gaye’s “God is Love” was brought to life with all it’s instrumental swing and Marvins sweet voice. Using the bass boost selecter switch with the JJs, you could note the extra bass more with these tubes than the 6n3ce.
Up next, my favorite tubes so far: a quad of Sylvania 5932 6L6WGA military grade tubes with double D getters. These puppies have fat brown bases, very short glass. I thought it would take a while for these tubes to warm up, but almost instantly they took me back with Alison Krauss and the Union Stations “Maybe” and “Ghost in this House” tracks from their Live album. Bass was tighter than the 6n3ce and a little more tuneful than the JJs. Sound stage was the best, much wider, higher, and accurate in my opinion. I hate dissecting the sonic qualities of music so I won’t anymore, needless to say these are some fantastic tubes if you can get your hands on them.
After reading up on these Sylvanias, they are considered to be one of the better sounding 6L6 tube variants next to the RCA black plates. I’d like very much to try the black plates to if they supposedly can better this. One day too, I’d like to try the famous Mullard EL34s.
I still have some Gold Lion KT66s, Groove Tube 6L6, and an un-named EL34 variant that was shipped to me when I purchased the amp. Lots of tube rolling fun in my future. I have to say, I am a little disappointed with the 6n3ce from my limited experience with it. I think I’ll have to blame the age/wear on this particular quad of tubes, as they need some volume to sound their best. It may be worth ordering another quad with stronger readings.
Thanks again for providing a valuable resource in this website to us Leben owners, Jeff. Sounds like you’ve got your work cut out for you with the Kingdom Royals, enjoy the review process and try to review them slowly preferably with a single malt or nice red wine
Hi Carlos,
That’s really good news that you were able to fix the Leben CS-600. That’s cool on the tube rolling, be sure to keep those results coming in! I’m with you, there’s lots of good new tubes out there being manufactured. Some of those NOS tubes are amazing for sure, but it’s nice to know there’s lots of good tubes old & new to be had.
Cheers!
Jeff
Good to hear Carlos
The Leben is a classic. That will be revered for years to come!
Hi
Finally, i got the KT120 in hand after 3 weeks of anxious waiting. It only has a few hrs in my Leben cs600, but i am hearing more micro and macro details from the same album, it has more air, instrument separation is better, it very sweet unlike KT90, bass r well control and treble r well extended without edgy.
I m ordering another quad match for a friend to try on his Audio research integrate amp, so far, this is the best pentodes tube, beating KT 88, 6550.
I will report more when i get more hr with it.
Thank.
YK
Hi YK,
Thanks for letting us know. Sounds like a very promising tube!
Kind regards,
Jeff
YK
Great to hear. I have kept my KT120s in ever since I out them in. They take 200 hours before they really open up.
Happy to know someone else is enjoying them. Makes me wonder what the new CS-1000P will sound like???
Hi
does any one know the cryo treated KT120 sound any different from the non cryo treated KT120, the price is only a couple of dollars different? My is an ordinary Kt 120. TQ
Hi YK,
I haven’t heard cryo treated KT120 tubes, but I’ve heard quite a few other cryo’d tubes and I always thought it was an improvement.
Watford Valves has a pretty nice description of what you can expect from cryo’d valves at this link: http://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?id=10
Best,
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for the link. Looking forward to your review of Kindgom Royal speaker.
@ ALL People:
You can say this tube is better than the other tube!
It depends from the source, the wire and the speaker.
Sorry for the late reply guys, just an update regarding the Raytheon 6CS7′s. I purchased a few sets off Jim McShane which arrived very quickly (to New Zealand) well packed in great condition. Comparing them to the original no brand Japenese tube, they are very similar to my ears. Nicely balanced, good detail without sounding edgy or harsh, bass just has the correct quantity without sounding bloated and a nice open midrange exposing all those lovely colours and tones in the music. I’d happily recommend them if you have a balanced to brighter system. My set of Sylvana (glossy black plates) are more forward and detailed to the point that it becomes too much in the wrong song. Though impressive at detail digging, the Raytheon’s are more musical in my system where I don’t need ant extra highlighting. Like any component it comes down to your taste and system matching. I think Jim has some more 6CS7′s available now. BTW my speakers are DIY Omega A8 Visaton based filtered with a Mundorf 1mh Inductor and .82ohm M-Resist. They are very open single point and have a response very similar to the HL5 so I’d expect if you find the HL5 slightly forward on some recordings, the Raytheons would be a great match.
Cheers James.
PS any more comments on the Tungsol KT-120 now they are burnt in from above post? OTP TX temps normal etc? Am very keen to try them but don’t want to compromise TX life if they are getting too hot above normal.
Just put in the KT-120′s! Oh so nice straight out of the box. Can’t wait to put some hours on them. These are a beautifully made tube.
How are they sounding run in guys?
Hi James,
Thanks for your comments on the Raytheon 6CS7′s. I’m intrigued. I’ll have to check them out, they sound like a really nice tube. Those KT-120 sound intriguing too.
Very cool all the way around – thanks for commenting!
Kind regards,
Jeff
Your welcome Jeff, any more findings I’ll share because your site is the best resource on the net for everything Leben:)
Cheers James.
They sound better after about 200hours. I have tried to go back to SBT tubes but keep going back to the KT 120′s.
I have stopped tube rolling since I discovered these.
Thanks Dean looking forward to then but boy they are so good now. Does your amps power TX run hotter with the KT-120′s or about the same as stock? I’ll try to measure the temp.
I m using KT120 for about 1.5 months, very happy with it, cant think of any other tube to beat it. Also, have just acquired Auditorium 23 IC and SP cable, it is just a well partnering cable for leben, very very musical although it lack the marco and mirco detail of my Audioquest, but it bring your attention to music without having bothering all those hidden detail.
Hi James
The KT120 generate more heat (cause they are bigger) but they are running way below there output/bias capability and my transfers feel about the same temp as with 6L6
Hi Mark W
I am just curious if you have tried the KT120 yet? Would love to know how they sound compared to your reference NOS 6L6?
I wil not try these KT120, cause i must left the top cover.
If you see my “status quo”, you will understand it.
I think the KT90 or KT120 can not do these things better as a RCA 6L6GC.
Hi Maik, you would be doing yourself a massive injustice if you didn’t try the KT-120 in your amp. I would be surprised if a good NOS valve would reach the sonic performance of them to be honest, seriously give them a try. Expect solid state grip on bass and full control of your speakers with the best NOS timbres and textures while being smooth! There is no harshness even new out of the box, I can not fault them and my speaker are very unforgiving.
Hello!
Ok when i try the KT120: I must left the topcover???
Which speaker are running in your systems withe Leben CS600???
Are the KT90 are equal like the KT120???
Only Tung-Sol KT120 on the market???
Best regards
Maik
Thanks dean, and I’m with you, I’d like to know how these 120 compare to exotic NOS. I think they will hole their ground well.
Hello!
Ok when i try the KT120: I must left the topcover???
Which speaker are running in your systems withe Leben CS600???
Are the KT90 are equal like the KT120???
Only Tung-Sol KT120 on the market???
Best regards
Maik
Hi Maik.
Yes unfortunately top cover must be off for the KT-120′s see link for pics below.
Speakers are Omega A8 inspired clones see second link below page 10 or 11.
Haven’t tried the KT-90.
Yes the Tung-sol KT 120′s (Awesome!!)
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/46447-kt-120-in-leben-cs-600-soooooo-good/
http://www.witchdoctor.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11&start=90
Yesterday I received a quad of old stock Philips/Valvo EL34 with the DD getters. So far I’m very impressed, this is the first time I’ve listened to EL34s for longer than a day and they do impress. They definitely accentuate the midrange and have a lushness that I very much enjoy. Very musical. I listened to Miles David “Kind of Blue”, the whole album again with these tubes and they brought me into the music like nothing else I’ve tried. Definitely recommend the NOS EL34s with the DD getters, I believe these are from the Holland factory.
And after reading all the rave reviews about the KT120, I will have to give those a shot too. It will be a while as I have to break in these EL34 and get a taste for their sound. But no doubt if they can deliver all the goods that everyone here is mentioning, they should be considered an incredible bargain.
On another note, I demoed a pair of Clear Day double shotgun cables for a week and was fascinated by the improvement they made in my system. Disclaimer, my current cables are from a spool of monoprice coper and I find them to be very harsh. But the double shotguns instantly killed the harshness and brought more fidelity to my system. Instrument separation was noticeably better. I felt the sound stage had increased in all directions, and I hate to use the term “veil had been lifted”, but that’s a good way to describe the improvement. Definitely recommend the Clear Day double shotguns, and the owner is fantastic to work with. For reference, my system is Leben CS600 and DeVore Nines speakers.
Thanks!!!
I will try NOS EL34 also.
I have new speakers and maybe the EL34 NOS are the better choice?
Best regards
Maik